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@ Tin Man
To be a good Christian I should say that God committed atrocities?
The reason I was focused on racism is because that was the topic being discussed.
@ Jo
To be an honest human you should admit that the bible is full of racist, misogynistic, racially superior tales and your alleged god is the author of genocide, infanticide and murder.
Otherwise you are worthless, you don't just lack a moral compass you lack empathy.
@ Old man shouts
If the Bible is not racist, must I still say it is, to be counted as a worthwhile person who has empathy?
Everything you have given to support your claim of a racist anthology, has not evidenced your claim. In fact, it has often indicated the opposite of your claim. I must admit the Bible is racist even if the evidence points in a different direction?
In the beginning of the Bible humans are made in the image of God. Not one race or ethnically made in the image of God, but all humans.
Was Abraham chosen because of his race or for some other reason? Who was primarily to be blessed by God through Abraham? All the nations or just one? All races or just one? This theme follows all through the Bible and ends with all nations, tribes, and languages in heaven. Not just one race in heaven but all of them.
How can an anthology who's purpose is to bless all, and ends with all being in heaven, be racist?
@ Jo
You have no evidence of this assertion, indeed you have no evidence that humans were "created" in the image or not of anything.
More fallacies, false unevidenced claims and wishful thinking. You truly enjoy not "living in the truth" Jo.
You have evidenced by your blatant denials of racist texts and actions by your alleged god that your are not indeed, interested in truth. Not interested in facts.
You came here to preach and you have been busted. Many others have given you links, facts and evidence. Your response? Apologetics and evasions.
Your lack of empathy is apparent in every defence you make of infanticide, genocide and wanton racist behaviours. You never intended to "live in truth" but continue your appalling promulgation of hateful misogynistic genocidal tracts that lead only to delusion.
Evidence your claims Jo.
@ Old man shouts
You made the claim, not me. You said the Bible is a racists anthology. That is the claim that is being addressed.
You gave three sentences from this lengthy anthology, that you said evidence your claim. I provided evidence that those three sentences actually indicated the opposite of your claim. In my most recent post I provided more evidence that shows your claim is not true. You don't know where in the Bible it says that humans are made in God's image? OK, here it is Gen 1:27 "So God created human beings in his own image.In the image of God he created them; male and female he created them." This indicates the opposite of your claim.
Where is your evidence and arguments? Is saying that Jo is a bad person the only argument you have left to support your claim.
You claim I am not living in the truth because I do not believe your false claim. I would be living in truth if I believed the Bible was a racist anthology, even though it is not? No "links, facts, or evidence" presented by anyone supports your claim.
I should believe your unevidenced claim?
@ Jo
The three quotes from one of the most important texts in the bible, i.e from Matthew were racist in content and can be read no other way despite your wishful thinking.
You did not refute or ameliorate them in any way.
They stand as deeply racist comments. You merely repeated one argument that I debunked about the greek/canaanite woman and then quoted verses from Luke which do not address the issue of the racist verses that I quoted.
You will note in my earlier notes I also wrote "I will leave the quotes from the OT to Dio and others" which they did in spectacularly successful manner as you have been reduced to pulling quotes about "made in the image" instead of facing the text as it is written and quoted to you.
No it doesn't.
Here are the genocidal commands and verses in the OT. Any command to destroy an ethnic group or people FOR WHATEVER REASON is racist...or can you not see that? Never mind infanticide, murder, rape, incest etc all commanded and condoned in your book. And I can quote those as well.
All the following verses are about and commands for ethnic cleansing or Racism.
Numbers 33:52–53
1 Samuel 15:3
Deuteronomy 7:1–2
Deuteronomy 12:2–3
Numbers 33:50–53
Exodus 34:11–13
Exodus 23:23–24,33
Deuteronomy 7:21–25
Nehemiah 13:1–3
Numbers 21:2–3
Joshua 11:21–22
Numbers 31:9–10
Jeremiah 49:2
Joshua 8:28
Deuteronomy 13:12–16
Ezekiel 6:13–14
Leviticus 26:30–31
Judges 2:2
2 Chronicles 14:2–5
2 Chronicles 34:1–7
Isaiah 34:5–7
Lamentations 2:17–22
Exodus 32:27–29
2 Chronicles 28:9
Deuteronomy 17:12
Exodus 21:15
Leviticus 20:10
2 Chronicles 15:13
Leviticus 21:9
Deuteronomy 18:20
Numbers 1:51
Exodus 22:20
Leviticus 26:21–22
Deuteronomy 22:20–21
Leviticus 24:13–16
2 Kings 19:35
Esther 9:5–6
Deuteronomy 13:12–16
Esther 9:13–17
1 Kings 18:39–40
Jeremiah 50:18–27
Ezekiel 35:7–8
Ezekiel 9:4–6
Hosea 13:4–9
Ezekiel 5:11–16
Numbers 25:4–5
Jeremiah 51:20–23
Now refute each of those.
You also misunderstand the Jesus described in Matthew. He was the epitome of the Law, and as such his commands to ignore the gentiles and Samaritans ( a racist comment) were entirely in line with the Law practised by the Jews. Similarly his comment " I am sent only to Israel" refers to the Messiah being and exclusively (racist) Jewish messiah.
That is where you will always fail to grasp the fundamentals of your religion and where it comes from Jo. Why you tie yourself in pretzels, it is because you have no comprehension of the origins of your church or the way it operated in the beginning.
You probably are a nice person Jo, you might like kittens, play with children, tithe regularly and refrain from beating your wife and selling your daughter into slavery or marriage. However when you try to defend the nastiest , racist verse in that book of yours you prove to be amoral. Without empathy and capable of excusing the most vile acts. That is how holocausts happen Jo...when people excuse the actions of a few.
I repeat, because almost every opinion can be backed up or excused by one or more verses in the bible it makes it useless as a moral guide or basis for an ethical life.
You merely are now arguing in a stiff necked manner with no actual desire to learn, but rather to run away with your fingers in your ears pursued by the stinging hornets of truth.
You have no desire to discover the truth, no desire to take the hard road of living in a truthful manner.
You have lied in your apologetics, and worse, you are lying to yourself every time you repeat the rubbish you find on apologetic websites.
You came here to preach and you have been refuted in each and every post so far. Your nose has been rubbed in the pools of racism, lies and bullshit you have typed ever since you arrived.
Find another hobby Jo, you really suck at this one.
@ Old man shouts
Sorry, just getting back to this forum.
Let me remind you of a few significant highlights. The Bible begins and ends with ALL people being made in Gods image and ALL people being in heaven. The purpose of "choosing" Abraham was ultimately to bless ALL nations. The NT says there is no difference between the jew and gentile in Christ. Jesus came to save all people, which is what ultimately happens. I don't know how you can get racism out of that, because it is not in the text.
I don't have time to address every item on your long list of OT verses that you claim evidence a racist anthology. You are making the same mistakes you made in the NT. Not reading far enough, or only reading one sentence. Ignoring what the text says and imposing your own view instead of what the text actually says.
I will address three of them below that are representative for most of the verses you listed.
In 1 Samuel 15:3 the verse before the one you quote explains why. "I have decided to settle accounts with the nation of Amalek for opposing Israel when they came from Egypt." Not because of racism, but for opposing them when they came out of Egypt.
A few verses after (4) Deuteronomy 7:1–2 it explains why. "for they will lead your children away from me to worship other gods. Then the anger of the Lord will burn against you, and he will quickly destroy you." For reasons other than racism is what the text says.
Deuteronomy 12:2–3 These verses are giving instructions to destroy idols. It does not even mention any people being destroyed. Later in the chapter it tells why and it is not because of racism. 29 “When the Lord your God goes ahead of you and destroys the nations and you drive them out and live in their land, 30 do not fall into the trap of following their customs and worshiping their gods. Do not inquire about their gods, saying, ‘How do these nations worship their gods? I want to follow their example.’ 31 You must not worship the Lord your God the way the other nations worship their gods, for they perform for their gods every detestable act that the Lord hates. They even burn their sons and daughters as sacrifices to their gods."
The same rules applied to the Jews as to the surrounding nations in regards to pagan worship. When Israel followed the ways of the surrounding nations, what happened to the. The same thing. They were slaughtered, carried of as slaves, and the cream of the crops were made eunuchs in the Babylonian courts.
@ Jo
Mate the one eyed way you read those verses...attacking the Amalekites was not racist? LOL...I am sure that the women and children didn't have a beef with the Hebrews, especially not the male children who found themselves smashed against rocks, or the little girls raped and made into slaves...Their ONLY crime was to be of the wrong race....Why would that nasty piece of filth YHWH suddenly command this vengeance? Hadn't the beef happened three hundred years before? So it was a racist quarrel in the end.
Lebensraum mean anything to you?
Read the damn book. It is the Hebrew superiority guide, yes, that included worshipping their gods. and ONLY those gods...as if the male god wasn't powerful enough to make everyone aware that he was the most powerful?
Talk about apologetics. Sad sack of lies more like. The text and verses are plain in themselves. You can't hop about the separate texts to Humpty Dumpty them into something that fits your twisted theology.
Enough amusement for one day.
@ Old man shouts
Your opinions are not evidence. I quoted exactly what the text says.
Even in the face of facts, you stick with your erroneous and biased beliefs.
@ Jo
No you diod not, when I quoted you exclusionary verses from the NT you dived into another text to attempt a refutation. The wpords stand as testament to the inherent racism in bth the NT and the Pentateuch.
No amount of wriggling and "creative interpretation' is going to alter the words.
Live in an apologetic la la land all you like but don't expect people who can actually read to join you.
Do not pretend you want to "live in truth" when all you can do is live a lie.
@ old man shouts
The verses you quoted form the NT were the same ones I quoted except I included a few more verses shortly before or after the original quote. This was done to show the entire story not just one sentence. Other texts within the Bible are relevant to your claim, so I included them. You want to give one sentence from the Bible, claim you know the true meaning and then deny the evidence when shown you are misunderstanding the anthology. Maybe theists aren't the only ones who do that?
Do you have any evidence or valid arguments.
Or just opinion and attacks on my character?
@ Jo
Utter poppycock. there is a clear instruction to only preach to the Jews, don't go to the Samaritans or the Gentiles. Its there in the text.
The other verse was about the Canaanite/Greek woman where the jesus figure inferred she was a dog and humiliated her on the basis of RACE.
If you can't see that then you don't wear bible glasses you wear a blindfold. All the apologetics in the world of fantasy cannot take away the actual words
You came here claiming to be searching for a way to "live in truth".
Since then you have used pathetic apologetics to justify the atrocities and amoral activities in your 'holy' book.
You have cherry picked quotes from historians that, of course, backfired on you when their actual conclusions were exposed.
You have made no effort to live in truth it seems, and if you think that reflects badly on your character we can agree on that.
(edit: tags and clarity)
@ Old man shouts
Your claim that the Bible is a racist anthology is just your biased opinion. It is not the truth as evidence in the text.
You try to evidence your claim by misrepresenting a few events and ignore the major events and outcomes.
Can you explain how the below 7 major events and themes in the text represent racism?
1. The story ends with ALL races peoples and tongues being in heaven.
2. The story begins with ALL people being made in the image of God.
3. In the middle of the story God comes to save ALL people. As a human he had to go to someone first
4. It says in the text that there is NO DIFFERENCE to God between the races.
5. One of the main themes is that God wants ALL people to live with him eternally in heaven.
6. When God "chose" Abraham, it was to bless ALL people.
7. He "chose" Abraham not because of prejudice, but because of his faith and obedience.
The vast majority of the experts in the field disagree with you on the historical Jesus.
They do not say he was God in the flesh, but that he did exist.
Not just the Christian theologians, but the atheists and the historians also disagree with you.
You use Philo as evidence against the historical Jesus, but it probably indicates the opposite.
If Jesus existed, like the experts agree, why did Philo not mention him?
1. He was an embarrassment and a threat to the Philo types.
2. He exposed their corporate and individual sins.
3. He did not fit within Philo's philosophical agenda. Just like the Pharisees and Sadducee's that Philo never mentioned.
Since the experts agree Jesus existed, it is your responsibility to say why Philo never mentioned him.
When are you going to start admitting the truth about the Bible?
@ Jo
Read the text.
You realise that when you excuse, gloss over and use apologetics to justify Infanticide, Genocide, Misogyny and Racism you are condoning such behaviour?
It shows such a lack of empathy and morality it makes the practitioner of such apologetics utterly amoral?
It is obvious that have not read Price, Carrier, Ehrmann or Pagels. Try reading before commenting on things that you are so obviously unaware.
"The "Vast Majority" is a fallacious appeal to authority, laughable when you haven't even studied the subject.
A good old reversal of the burden of proof...is there anything you would not stoop to?
Philo, like EVERY OTHER WRITER/CHRONICLER OF THE PERIOD...did not mention the Jesus figure, the alleged magic Jesus, zombies wandering around Jerusalem etc etc. NOT ONE MENTION...so according to you it was all a conspiracy or everyone had collective amnesia?
As I said the evidence for a majic Jesus points to the verdict of "improbable", that for a completely human jesus? (Which puts a lie to your religion) "NOT PROVEN"
I have never said anything else.
Your "truth" becomes ever more desperate and evermore threadbare Jo.
@Jo Re: To Old Man - "I should believe your unevidenced claim?"
Well, it is quite obvious you do not even believe the words in your own "holy" book. Therefore, your not believing Old Man (or anybody else, for that matter) really isn't such a big surprise.
@Jo Re: "To be a good Christian I should say that God committed atrocities?"
Sooooo.... You are perfectly okay with the fact your god ordered the murder of countless newborn baby boys because of something a powerful ruling Pharaoh refused to do?.... Even though your "loving" omniscient/omnipotent god could have simply dealt with the Pharaoh directly?.... *concerned look on face*.... *slooooooowly and carfeully stepping backward toward the exit door*..... *keeping constant watch on Jo*... Oooooooookie-dokie, then.... *nervous chuckle*... Uh, yeah... Uh, I'm just gonna step outside for some fresh air for a moment... *blindly reaching behind back and fumbling for doorknob*.... You, uh, you just hang tight here. I'll only be a moment... *finding doorknob*... *quickly opening door and dashing out onto back porch*.... *running toward parking lot*... *dialing 9-1-1 on cell phone*.... *operator answers*... ('9-1-1, what is your emergency?")... *talking out of breath while running*.... Help! I need two or three big guys with a tranquilizer gun and a straight jacket! Hurry!.... *stopping at end of parking lot*... *turning to keep an eye on the exit door*... I'm at the far end of the parking lot! I'll flag them down when they get here!....
@ Cognostic
Isn't your statement bigoted "All Christians are bigots and possibly racists"? There is not one Christian who is not a bigot?
I believe in all the verses, even the ones I don't like.
@ Delaware, Jo, Whothefuckever,
Now let's rip your bullshit lies and fallacies apart.
============================================================
Of course your "evidence of the fallacy" was skipped. It was not evidence. A string of preposterous claims does not make evidence. Instead it is fallacious lies.
Delaware, you are in serious need of further education. You just do not seem to more knowledge than a testerone horny teen-ager. It would be to your advantage to go on to college and learn some real true knowledge in the sciences. Then you may just begin to have some comprehension and understanding skills to realize the Bible is nothing more than an anthology of lies plagiarized from other sources thousands of years older than the Bible or the Hebrews.
Do some god damned research. Fuck. Quit acting so fucking dense. Let your true intelligence shine through and throw the shackles and chains of religion.
And since you provided the perfect fallacy, I am going to use a different name.
And this line of reasoning is prefected scientific FACTS (Formulated and Accurately Codified Truth in Science) that your religious beliefs are in fact racist, prejudiced, and bigoted.
Racist - showing or feeling discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or believing that a particular race is superior to another.
Exodus 11:7
Exodus 23:23-33
Leviticus 25:44-46
Numbers 25:5
Deuteronomy 7:1-6
Deuteronomy 7:6
Deuteronomy 23:3-6
Nehemiah 13:3
Nehemiah 13:23-30
Your own sorry fucking religion actually teaches you to be a racist. And that is only part of the list of scriptures that teaches those skull-fucked Christians to be racist, prejudiced, and bigots.
THERE IS NO SCIENCE WHICH SUPPORTS ANYTHING IN THE BIBLE. I am calling you out on this one, boy. Either provide OBJECTIVE HARD EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE, or admit your are lying. The true truth is that ALL science proves that ALL religion is false. Lies. And forget about FAITH (Falsehoods Assumptions Innuendoes and Treasonous Hypocrisy).
Here is another fallacy. There is NOTHING logical about any religion, especially Christianity.
Yes I do. The fallacy is your fallacious Religious Absolutism. Again, the definitions since like all Religious Absolutists truly hate the truth.
Religious Absolutist – anyone who has inexorable belief in any religion, especially the worst subset, Apologists.
Apologist – a dastardly subset of the Religious Absolutists who practices apologetics, which is the assumption of presupposed conclusions that have nothing to do with reason and rationality and actual information, creating irrational excuses and whatever conflicting ideas justifying their baseless assumptions, regardless of what the true facts are, using beguiling dialectical semantics, distorted and perverted data, emotional whiney-ass pleas, due to an indoctrination conditioning that is so ingrained they never question the veracity of the nonsense they offer, or why they need to defend their faith at all.
The difference between a Religious Absolutist and Apologist, and Religious Persons is that the Religious Absolutists completely believe the Bible is inerrantly correct and will not accept any evidence that truthfully proves their beliefs are completely incorrect. Religious Persons actually believes science to be true and views the Bible as basically a fairy tale, excepting the very few true truths it does hold. Basically all a Religious Person is doing is trying to find an answer to the need of the spirituality they feel they need but do not need. A Religious Absolutist is perfectly willing to kill, perform physical torture, and/or psychological terrorism, against a godless heathen in order to save his/her soul. A Religious Person is actually rational about their beliefs and what they hold to be true. Atheists and Religious Perons can read many books and still feel they have a lot to learn. Religious Absolutists barely read one book and feel they know everything. And the worst Religious Absolutists of all, the Apologists. The Apologists go to only religious universities and earn degrees proving they have cherry-picked memorizations of the Bible in order to argue against Atheism. Some of the worst are Ken Ham, William Lane Craig, Pat Robertson, Billy Graham, Oral Roberts, Jerry Falwell, Joel Osteen, Eric Hovind, Sy Bruggencate, and many many others.
Another way of looking at it is that the Religious Absolutists and Apologists are the religious assholes and Religious Persons are Civilized People. Religious Absolutists and Apologists are the most uncivilized and savage assholes to ever exist in all of history.
Unplug. Wake up.
rmfr
@JO: Is AR prejudiced because only members can post? I don't think so, but just following your logic. AR allows anyone to join. Christians allow anyone to join. AR: has no opinion what so ever about anyone who does not join. Christianity asserts all non-believing people who refuse to believe as they believer will burn in hell. (THIS IS BIGOTRY AND IT IS CONDONED BY YOUR BIBLE AND YOUR RELIGION.) Your attempt at false analogy is pathetic.
Are you really as dense as you pretend to be? You keep saying the same inane crap over and over.
LET'S BREAK THIS DOWN FOR YOU:
John is a racist.
John uses the Bible to support his racism. (He quotes all the racist passages in the text and points to the fact that all non-believers are to be damned to hell and punished for all eternity for not believing as he believes and joining the Christian group. )
Therefore, the Bible supports racism. (CERTAINLY TRUE, JOHN JUST PROVIDED THE EVIDENCE.)
(Dio and other use this line of reasoning) WHICH IS CORRECT AS LONG AS THE QUOTES BEING USED ARE ACTUALLY RACIST AND IN CONTEXT. JESUS WAS IN FACT A BIGOT AND A RACIST. THE BIBLE SUPPORTS THIS PERSPECTIVE.
If you change out Bible for many other words the fallacy becomes clear.
John beleives in the Bible. (NO HE DOESN'T. TALKING TO HIM FOR 10 MINUTES WOULD PROVE THIS. JOHN CHERRY-PICKS WHAT HE CHOOSES TO BELIEVE FROM THE BIBLE AND MAKES EXCUSES FOR THINGS HE DOES NOT BELIEVE. NEVERTHELESS, FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUMENT, I WILL GIVE YOU "JOHN BELIEVES EVERYTHING IN THE BIBLE."
John uses science to support his belief in the Bible. (THIS IS NOT POSSIBLE. John will never be able to support belief in the assertions of the bible by using science. Bats are not birds. Rabbits do not chew their cud. There is little to no actual evidence for Jesus. The exodus from Egypt did not happen. Men can not live in the bellies of big fish. This is the creationist methodology. You begin with the conclusion you want while ignoring everything else and then look for facts to support your conclusion. This is not science but a bastardization of science. It is backwards and wrong. Science does not support belief in the bible. )
Therefore, science supports belief in the Bible. (PROVE IT.)
John is a Christian
John uses logic to support his Christianity. (THERE ARE NO LOGICAL ARGUMENTS SUPPORTING CHRISTIANITY THAT ARE NOT BASED ON FALLACIES. If you think the core beliefs of the Christian faith can be supported by science or logic, please prove it. The core beliefs of prejudice and bigotry can be easily supported with the Bible. All you need do is read it. )
Therefore, logic supports Christianity. (LOGIC DOES NOT SUPPORT CHRISTIANITY. PLEASE PROVE YOUR HYPOTHESIS. WITH FACTS, EVIDENCE and this LOGIC you mention.)
Do you see the fallacy?
@ Cognostic
You said "Is AR prejudiced because only members can post? I don't think so, but just following your logic. AR allows anyone to join. Christians allow anyone to join. AR: has no opinion what so ever about anyone who does not join. Christianity asserts all non-believing people who refuse to believe as they believer will burn in hell. (THIS IS BIGOTRY AND IT IS CONDONED BY YOUR BIBLE AND YOUR RELIGION.) Your attempt at false analogy is pathetic.
No, AR is not prejudiced because only members can post. But I think your argument proves my point.
There are the "12 commandments of AR" on the right hand side after you sign on, that you have to follow, or you are expelled. There are some basic requirements in order to become a member of AR. If you don't meet the requirements and follow the rules, you are not a member. This is not bigoted or prejudiced. AR is open to anyone. If someone does not join, the benefits and privileges of AR are not conferred on them.
If you replace AR with Christian, it proves my point. Both are open to all, with some requirements and rules. If you do not join, or violate the rules, you no longer have the privileges and benefits of membership. Neither is bigoted or prejudiced.
Yes, AR is bigoted/prejudice against people who come on here and violate the rules. They are removed from the site. That does not mean AR has an eternal opinion about them, believes they should all be tortured, or burned in a hell for all eternity. You are still comparing apples and oranges. No one at AR is waiting for the rapture to condemn all non-members to eternal suffering.
Now - If you simply look at your supposition above, your conclusion, "AR and Christianity are not bigoted" is an error. The fact is that AR is bigoted to the degree of removing people who can not follow the rules. Christianity being bigoted to a much greater degree, wishes death and eternal damnation on all who do not believe as it believes. (Rules don't actually have to be followed as long as you believe and beg for forgiveness after violating them.) Christianity is a religion of Bigotry and Prejudice.
@ Cognostic
You made the comparison of AR and Christianity. I was just following your line of reasoning.
I disagree that "AR is bigoted/prejudiced against people who come here and violate the rules."
How can you call something (AR or Christianity) bigoted and prejudiced when:
1. Anyone can join.
2. You just have to meet some requirements and go by the rules to stay a member. I suspect AR, like Christianity, will let you back in if you agree to stop doing whatever got you kicked out.
3. There are benefits only available to those who become and stay members.
4. The rules apply equally to everyone.
5. One of the rules to stay a member is to NOT practice racism.
God, nor any Christian who goes by the Bible "wishes death and damnation on all who do not believe."
God and Christianity actively recruits, and tries to convince people to go to heaven with them. The truly want you to go.
If a bus pulls up at your house everyday and the driver tries to talk you into getting on, so you can go to the AR convention (heaven). If you never get on, whose fault is it that you didn't get to go to the AR convention?
Does the Bible really say that "non-members" will be condemned to eternal suffering? It may not be what you believe.
Christopher Hitchens said it best when asked if he would want to go to heaven, if given the chance. He said no, it would not be heaven to him. So if God gives him his request, and he doesn't get into heaven, is God being unfair? If a Christian gets to go to heaven, and and Atheist gets to have his life end at death (as he believes it does). Is God being unfair?
Re: Jo - "God, nor any Christian who goes by the Bible "wishes death and damnation on all who do not believe."
...*COUGH-COUGH-COUGH-COUGH-COUGH*... *choke-sputter-gag-choke-sputter*... *COUGH-COUGH-COUGH-COUGH-COUGH*... Oh-holy-fuck! How in the sacred name of divine cow shit could anybody EVER type something like that with a straight face??? Somebody please tell me that was a bad attempt at humor! Seriously, somebody please tell me he was joking... *cough-cough-cough*... *suddenly reaching toward right side rib area*... OW! Shit! I think I pulled a muscle!... *groan*...
@ Tin Man
Does God wish death and damnation on anyone? I thought he wanted everyone to go to heaven?
@Jo Re: "I thought he wanted everyone to go to heaven?"
And I thought you came here trying to find truth. Dang... Looks like we are both wrong... *shrugging shoulders*...
@ Jo
The "No True Scotsman" fallacy. Your argument can be dismissed. Argumentum ad Populum your argument is dismissed
False analogy. Your argument is dismissed.
Yes it does say that. It may not be what you want to believe.
Presuppositionalist argument. Argument from ignorance, the False Dilemma Fallacy and finally the Hasty Generalisation Fallacy.
Once again it appears you have taken aim, fired and shot yourself squarely in both feet and one knee for good measure.
Your arguments are fallacious and can be dismissed. This "living in truth lark is harder than it seems, isn't it?
@ Old man shouts
None of you fallacies that you say I committed match up with what I said. Maybe if you explained why they are fallacies instead of just saying they are.
Here is a more direct analogy than my bus one, so you don't think it is fallacious.
Every day God tries to get someone to go to heaven, the person refuses, so God does not take them to heaven. Who's fault is it that they are not in heaven?
If someone dies and is at the gates to heaven. The doors open and they are invited in. The person refuses. Who's fault is it that they are not in heaven?
Where does it say that God WISHES death and damnation to all who do not believe? I know where it says he wishes for all to be saved.
@ Jo
Then you should educate yourself on common fallacies. You have been given links to several sites that will help you. But it does seem that you have an inbuilt prejudice against actually learning anything that could help you "live in truth"
https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies
@ Old man shouts
I had previously read the reference you provided and many more. I understand the fallacies you gave, but they do not match with what I said.
@Jo
Then you obviously do NOT understand the fallacies. Educate yourself. I gave you the links, pop them in there and see the replies.
It is obvious your tactics are to deny, obfuscate, throw red herrings and eventually use terminological inexactitudes rather than admit your bible is a misogynistic, racist, infanticide, murderous guide book. You came here to preach, not to find a way to " live in truth". You have been exposed by your own posts over this last month.
It is not even an original ploy by your ilk. Your lack of empathy and decency is plain for all to see by your replies in these forums. Keep posting, I for one show them and quote them to others, you are a poster boy for the leaving christianity movement.
How can you live with yourself and your lack of truth?
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