Ok, so now for part three!
Islamophobia appears to be the new buzzword that is chucked around for anyone who says even the slightest criticism of the Islamic religion or it's followers.
However, I would like to make a proposition regarding this phenomena... but firstly, what is a phobia?
A phobia by definition is a type of anxiety disorder, defined by a persistent fear of an object or situation.
So I would like to propose the following, "there is nothing wrong with being islamophobic" as in, being fearful, conceded by, scared of... and so on...
With the caveat that I mean this in the same way as the first amendment in the US which covers free speech, all is fine providing the speech does not insight or call for violence.
Critical analysis of all ideas is essential for human progress...
So again the proposition, "there is nothing wrong with being islamophobic"
Thoughts?!
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I think "-phobe" can indicate loathing of something as well as fear. Arachnophobia is fear spiders and claustrophobia is fear of small spaces, but xenophobia and homophobia are hatred of foreigners and homosexuals.
In both senses, I think "phobia" also implies that the fear or loathing is irrational. So those who moan about Islamaphobia seem to be suggesting that's irrational to criticize, dislike, or fear Islam. It's just a trick to shut down debate by saying that people who don't like Islam are crazy.
I despise Islam as a destructive, retrogressive death cult based on lies and myths. I despite countries that enforce laws against blasphemy and apostasy, etc. I pity ordinary Muslims who are caught up in this web of deceit.
I think my fear and loathing are rational, so I reject the idiotic "Islamaphobe" label.
And by the way, most of what I said about Islam applies equally to Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, etc.
Well I can say that I have no animosity towards Muslims Or Islam; In my great country USA we are a melting pot everyone is given the opportunity to participate, To contribute that what is so great about our nation .As long as any group doesn`t advocate hatred or violence against any of my fellow Americans and is willing to obey the laws of this great experiment of democracy then I`m okay with them. The problem is that a lot of groups don`t assimilate into the culture of the USA. So that breeds superstition and fear to some people. That`s is why I am a product of the public school system, where everyone is accepted to study.I also served in the armed services; I mixed with different ethnic groups and I can say honestly that it made me a better person.
Tell that to the Cherokee...AB
Anyhoo, to stay on topic Algebe is quite right, I abhor fundamental moslems as much as I detest fundies of any stripe or cult. Phobic I am not, I abhor and will not countenance a "faith" that treats women as chattels, causes them to cover themselves in public (lest they stir my lust FFS). That taxes me to pray over my damn food before I get it. That throws LGBTQI people off tall and short buildings. That denies the rights of women to safe medical procedures and to own their own bodies. That sexually assaults infants by removing parts of their genitals. That insists that I pay a tax to not belong to their faith. That denies me my humanity unless I profess to believe their particular version of the faith. That espouse slavery in their "good books". I could go on...
Am I phobic? No I am fucken allergic to any moronic bullshit that comes up with any or all of these..
@Old man shouts...
Quite right. Fuck em all and the ass or flying donkey or whatever they rode into town on. Respect is for people who've earned it, not for crazy cults.
Old man shouts...
We are lucky that we didn't live during biblical times with our modern sensibilities. There's a story two in the Bible about Jews throwing people off buildings and cliffs. In one story they were going to toss Jesus off a cliff but he escaped. It seems to be a preferred way in the Middle East to kill someone without spilling their blood. Must be a cultural thing.
Yes I was aware of that, I was making the point that any crazy assed "religion" that requires me to support any of the penalties/strictures that it requires to enter its version of the afterlife is anathema.
I am anti it and allergic to it. I break out in verbal abuse.
@ AG
1) What is "assimilate"? Do you think that that is somehow a requirement, that there is a specific "American" culture that everyone has to conform to?
2) You talk about a "melting pot" and other things, but I KNOW you don't believe it. You support the nationalist populace fascist NAZI views of your earthbound god Trump. Those views have NOTHING to do with democracy.
3) And NOTHING has made you a "better person"! If you are better now than you were you must have been extraordinarily fucked up because you are certainly fucked up now.
Phobia doesn't just mean fear. From a psychological perspective sure. But the word phobia or phobic can mean hating, or repelling, it is the opposite of word phileos, which can translate to love.
Hydro-philic substances dissolve in water, whereas hydo-phobic substances repel from water, and do not mix with it.
Conclusion: I don't see the word islamophobic or even homophobic, as referring to fear. I see them as referring to a repellant behavior, a desire not to associate with or mix with them, an attitude of segregation.
John 61X Breezy:
Whether phobia means fearing or hating, the core characteristic is that it's irrational. There's no rational reason for an adult human being to be afraid of spiders, mice, birds, etc. There are rational reasons to dislike Islam, including violence, oppression, and misogyny. So the term "Islamophobia" as applied to anyone who criticizes Islam is itself irrational.
In psychological terms we are more interested in the adverse effects of a behavior than their rationality. A person can be afraid of spiders, but not until that fear produces negative and unwanted consequences (stops eating for fear of finding a spider in their food) does it properly become a phobia. The fear can also be excessive, eliciting a stronger reaction than is desired.
Psychologists aren't going around threatening to diagnose people with a phobia, unless they give a good reason for their fear. They observe how that fear affects their life or the life of others.
As far as islamophobia goes in the political sphere, its definitely more of a slur than a diagnosis. I attached a portion of my psychology of prejudice textbook. The term hints more at avoidance.
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@John 61X Breezy: "until that fear produces negative and unwanted consequences"
When doesn't a phobia produce negative and unwanted consequences?
By "rationality" I mean that there's no logical reason for fearing spiders, etc. An arachnophobe typically isn't worried about venom. Fear of cobras or rattlesnakes is rational because they can kill you. But once the snake is dead it's no longer an object of fear for most people. An arachnophobe will be uncomfortable with a dead spider or even a picture of a spider.
Don't you distinguish these different types of fear in psychology?
Well by definition a phobia would produce unwanted consequences, but fear itself doesn't always lead to unwanted consequences. In other words its an issue of degree, not kind. We all have social anxiety for example, but not until the person stops leaving the house because of it, does it become agoraphobia.
Is the fear of flying rational or irrational for example? On one hand the endeavor is definitely dangerous, you're surrendering all your control, and accidents happen. On the other hand, we know those accidents are unlikely. So how do you determine the rational position here? A diagnosis wouldn't care, after all most people do fear flying. But only certain people fear it so much that they miss their child's wedding, and miss their parents funeral. The fear becomes problematic, and the person knows it.
I'm sure different types of fears get distinguished, I just didn't learn about them.
@John 61X Breezy: "Is the fear of flying rational or irrational for example?"
Definitely irrational. LOL. My fear of airports, on the other hand, is quite rational. I fear the trip to the airport, the check-in counter, the immigration counter, and the departure lounge. I don't feel safe until I'm inside the plane and the door is shut.
I think that people overcome their fears. Agoraphobics go out because they have to work or get food. Arachnophobes kill spiders. But there's always a cost in terms of stress and whatever effects that has on the body. Many phobics are also very afraid of others discovering their fears.
@John 61X Breezy
In response to your attachment:
I've long suspected that homophobia is an actual fear rather than just a bias. I think homophobic people are secretly and perhaps unconsciously afraid that they are themselves homosexual and see aggressive anti-homosexual behavior as a way to disguise that. I'm sure there are a lot of nervous men in the Westboro Baptist Church.
As Quentin Crisp said after being attacked by anti-gay thugs, "some queers are tough, and some toughs are queer."
@Random
Dear sir, the first amendment only protects speech from government oversight. Free speech is not protected in the private sector. In other words, the government cannot dictate your speech or prevent you from freedom of expression. Meaning you can criticize the government without fear of punishment or suppression.That is just the law.
As far as Islamophobia goes. I tend to defend muslim and islam (not terrorists) because Americans have been targeting innocent people simply because they are muslim. Now I regard islam as I regard any and every religion, but I am not going to support carrying out prejudices against muslims just because some radicals have committed terrorism. If we did that, then we should have jailed every white christian right after Timothy McVeigh committed his act of terrorism.
Mykcob4 52% of British Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal. 42% of British Muslims think gays shouldn't teach in schools. That's over a million Muslims and there are still polls coming out
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@atheist pepe: "52% of British Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal"
The survey was based on face-to-face interviews. I wonder if an anonymous poll would have gotten different results. I wonder also how accustomed Muslims are to speaking freely without fearing adverse consequences. Many British Muslims are first- or second-generation immigrants from highly authoritarian countries like Pakistan.
I suspect that many of the millions of followers claimed by Islam are chained to the religion by family pressure and fear of radicals.
Algebe then we can assume there are enough *fundamentalist to scare the rest of the community. Let's say 30% of the 52% is lying because of fear that still means we would be bringing in tens of thousands of people (a low estimate) who have really backwards views and from an American perspective that worries me because we have enough fundamentalists as it is. I would be equally against bringing in Christians from the Dark Ages
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@Atheist pepe: "enough *fundamentalist to scare the rest of the community."
It doesn't take many. That's why they call it "terrorism". I think Islamic terrorism is aimed at Muslims as much as anyone else.
But you're right to be worried about religious fundamentalists. Unfortunately America isn't setting a very good example at home with all the Christian tentacles slithering into the government and education. Maybe Christians from the Dark Ages would be an improvement over the 16th century Puritans you've got now.
Algebe hahahahah maybe. I grew up in a "Atheists are in league with the devil" type of church. Thankfully they received the gold every year when it came to mental gymnastics.
Well atheist Pepe, I dare say if you took a poll like that but interviewed American christians, you'd get the same results roughly.
May I just add that none of these propositions I've been posting reflect my personal view on things.
I quite hearing these questions asked and then listening to debate (or reading in this case).
For example, I don't even accept fine tuning to describe life or the universe...
In this context, there was an article in the metro in England of a guy debating thay context is required before calling someone an islamaphobe as there is nothing wrong in fearing something thay could potentially end your life.
He went on that he fears Islam as he does cancer.
I found it interesting...
"Islomophobia" as generally defined is an intense fear or hatred of, or prejudice against, the Islamic religion or Muslims, especially when seen as a geopolitical force or the source of terrorism. "
Even in the definition there is a equivocation fallacy. Muslims are their religion. This is complete BS ala Sam Harris. It is not bigotry, prejudice or phobic to discuss BAD IDEAS. Islam is the mother-load of bad Ideas.
Islam like Christianity needs to be dragged, kicking and screaming, into the light of day where it can be examined. It certainly is not phobic to confront the ignorance of Islam.
This "Islamophobic" BS is simply a movement by Islamists to call anyone challenging their ignorance "phobic" of their beliefs and then equating that belief with the actual people who practice it. This is a false connection. The belief can be critically discussed without prejudice or fear of the people. And those people who cause fear and distress with threats and violence can can be discusses in the context of their faith and belief systems. This says nothing at all about the Muslim population as a whole. No one cares that there are Good Muslims.
I concur sir, a criticism of a religion or it's ideas, whether broad or specific is not a condemnation of all its adherents. I think Judaism is as vapid and senseless a myth as all other theistic religions, but that is not antisemitism, which I despise. We have a word for such prejudices against people of different ethnicity and it's racism, and whilst I don't doubt there are opportunistic racists who try to masquerade their racism as criticisms of Islam, genuine criticisms of Islam are not racism.
No idea can be beyond criticism, or critical examination.
https://i.imgur.com/l9jxBqM.jpg
i think islam is more than a government not religion, they have their own rules like..
for example polygamy.
Actually, Q, their religion dictates their government and laws.
oh. yeah right, T-man.. my bad.
just wanna share though. i heard that RCC is discussing about having a married priest.
cause they think that people now a days are running out of interest of being a priest.
hahaha.. i can't imagine.
free from taxes, more for their interest, i guess a lot of married men will fall in line.
Your reply is well founded./ Islam is a theocratic form of government. It is a complete system of religion and government. What happens in the West, because of our long tradition of separation of church and state, is that we do not see Islam as a system of government that can be equated democracy, monarchy, Nazism, fascism, or authoritarian socialism. Islam actually means a return to the dark ages for all who wish to follow it.
I have an irrefutable proof that islam is belligerent, not to be trusted and dangerous. The new left defines phobia as an unjustifiable fear. The original Greek is simply fear. The fear we have of islam is not unjustifiable. They are really out to get us. When they are weak, they sign peace treaties that they break as soon as they get stronger. They do not consider promises, even contracts with the "infidels" as binding.
I have written to posts about it and am in the middle of a third.
http://norealgod.com/2017/10/31/the-illogical-quran/
http://norealgod.com/2018/01/21/peaceful-islam/