Ok, so I don't actually believe that prayer works anymore, but I was bored so I came up with my criteria for what would allow me to believe that it does in fact work.
Go to all places of worship and religious orphanages in an area that have a leaky roof (all places need a roof change eventually).
Now, don't fix this leaky roof. Monitor the area with 24 hour surveillance.
People need to now pray for the roof to get fixed by itself.
If monitored properly and a roof magically ceases to drip, I will consider changing my mind, although there could still be other causes for the stop, I will not be too much of a pedantic jerk here lol .
I am curious to know what you guys think would count as significant proof that prayer does have some power.
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You might want to rule out a natural explanation of the leak stopping. There are many reasons why a hole might get plugged up or sealed.
The experiment has already been done, though with heart surgery patients rather than leaky roofs.
http://www.freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Harvard_prayer_experiment
The results showed that prayer made absolutely no difference. Just about everyone undergoing serious surgery has someone praying for them, so if prayer worked, no-one would die in surgery. Unfortunately they do.
I know nothing about the power of prayer. That doesn't mean I haven't done my far share during my life. I'm not enough of a fool to completely deny anything because I believe I am right. Now, evidence of a god... that is something entirely different. I have sober first hand experience that, no matter what I throw at it, I cannot explain. Some are quite profound. Even with the limited knowledge that I have my brain tells me there has to be a better explanation than a religious one. I say those who are desperate to believe will and those who are skeptical will not. Just my thoughts..
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Then there is the matter of the one, worthy prayer indulged in by the Pope and Christian leaders everywhere, a prayer that whole congregations offer up, even nations at times, the one prayer that a decent God should hear and accept, namely the prayer for world peace. Have you noticed any peace breaking out lately? Come to think of it, have you ever noticed any peace ever breaking out this side of the Pax Romana?
I think that answers the question about prayer.
Hi Greensnake,
But think how much more war there would be if they didn't pray for peace.
"have you ever noticed any peace ever breaking out this side of the Pax Romana?"
The Japanese had three centuries of peace. They closed of their country to almost outside contacts and stamped out Christianity within. They allowed foreign traders into Nagasaki on condition that they stomped on religious icons to prove they weren't Christians. The only ones who would do that were Dutch Protestants. Maybe the Pope & Co. should be praying for the elimination of Christianity as the key to lasting peace.
I just saw a movie about that exact thing in Japan. Called "Silence" starring Andrew Garfield. I believe the movie came out recently.
People who believe in the so-called power of prayer can cite innumerable examples of it, people who don't, conversely, can put on exhibit the same number in opposition. Back and forth, It's the only true natural perpetual motion machine known to man.
It's a senseless argument from both sides when their relative facts and fiction are legally indistinguishable in the psyche of a governing legislative body establishing an enforced peace between them. Remove that and expect to witness an escalation of bloodshed the likes of ISIS where bloodshed itself is the power of prayer.
@pork222
You are ignoring a vital part of REASONING. It doesn't matter that people prayed and the roof stopped leaking. You have to prove that PRAYER was the REASON that the roof stopped leaking. Every single credible test I have seen, heard, or read about prayer is that it doesn't work. It is a placebo and nothing more. In fact, prayer can and is damaging. People are asked to stop their medical treatment and turn to prayer. My own cousin was burned severely as a child. He was disfigured. His parents were extremely religious. They did not allow plastic surgery for burns. He has been disfigured for life.
The roof will stop leaking when it stops raining and all of the water has run off of the roof.
Let me tell you the most iconic of many cases in my life where Prayer "working" is false and just a 30-minute waste of your time.
My uncle, was heavily injured from a exploding gas tank which he thought was empty but was too late to realize that as the the wielder had contacted the gas and "Kaboom". My grandmother, my mother and all of my uncles and aunts plus the family members of my uncle prayed to God to save him.
Guess what happened? The next day, he's dead, zero life signs and that prayer lasted for more than 5 hours, they even brought a Imam. Prayer doesn't work, it's just a false "teaching" of the Church to just make you more "dependent" on God.
If a person is religious why would he pray for special favors? After all, whatever happens is the deity's will and regardless of the religion the person has to die in order to get to heaven or paradise. If anything one should pray for a speedy death instead of a long and agonizing life of pain and suffering.
When people pray they are just complaining that their favorite deity's plans for them suck and that they want a better deal.