Theists try to debate with atheists usually out of curiosity, but primarily motivated by ego. They think that they can engage an atheist and win an argument. The problem is with the reality of things. They engage in the argument and quickly learn that their position is unattainable.
And just so you know christian here is why.
You enter every debate, no matter how you start it, with a predetermined outcome. You think that no matter where the debate leads the outcome will be what you have predetermined. But in reality your arguments no matter how sincere start off with a major flaw. "The Gap!"
You see in all of your logic line of reason eventually you come to a gap. In the theist world, they just leap over it as if it isn't there. But when debating with people as logical and well educated as atheists usually are, that gap becomes a stumbling block that you christians just can't overcome. Thus your predetermined outcome is blown up dissipates in the wind, evaporates, completely vanishes.
I have seen this over and over and over again.
Now you christians try hard to overcome it with obfuscation, lies, pseudo-science, and revisionist history, but it just doesn't come out in the wash.
That is why every atheist soon learns that "debating" with christians is a huge waste of time. You can't reason with the unreasonable, and believing in a myth that is not supported by any facts, and whose arguments for such a myth has a huge fucking hole in it, is the very definition of unreasonable.
Facts are facts. They are not predetermined remember that christians.
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"people as logical and well educated as atheists"
this really killed me
@Peripatectic
It obviously didn't, because you're still posting.
@Mykob4
Is it strange that theists always have a poorer command of English than atheists?
You may not witness this very much Keith being that you live in the UK, but it is amusing to watch southern racist mock urban blacks for their use of the English language.
They make fun of blacks that say "ax" instead of "asks" yet in the same sentence say "winder" instead of "window."
The difference is that Blacks are conscious and purposely do it, whereas southern racists haven't a clue.
I believe you. I just had a go at a monkey on another thread trying to argue with angiebot, telling him that he's dealing with someone who speaks English as a second language but far outclasses him in both her proficiency and ability to express herself in it. Theists, it seems, like racists, are basically jerks.
Mycob, shouldn’t the goal of civil debate be to help each other arrive at truth. If it is true that god does not exist then I’d become an atheist. Facts need to be analyzed to determine what their significance is in relation to a question. When people analyze facts we come to different conclusions based on our biases, subject knowledge, reasoning skills, and even our emotions. Sometimes we want something to be true, so we can behave in a certain fashion. Atheists and theists alike.
My point AJ777 is that believers go into every discussion with the idea that the god theory is proven fact when is simply not the case. Atheists don't enter a discussion with any predetermined agenda as a rule.
Fact:
God is a theory.
The god theory has never been proven.
By default, there is no god.
Just like:
The tooth fairy is a myth.
The tooth fairy has never been proven.
By default, there is no tooth fairy.
That isn't a belief that there is no god. That is just the reality of the facts.
In every attempt to prove a god, there is a huge gap.
For example:
You may say "The world seems to be ordered, therefore god created everything.
Heres the gap:
Even if the world seems ordered (and you'd have to prove that), you haven't
1) proven a god exists.
2) proven that the unproven god created anything.
That void of necessary facts is exactly the problem with the god theory.
The goal of civil debate is to win. It isn't a method for solving problems or acquiring truth. Research is the method to finding solutions and arriving at truth.
I doubt very much that anyone's mind about the existence or nonexistence of a god will change due to debates. If you or anyone comes here for answers, then you might get answers to questions, but arguing and posing false narratives doesn't solve anything.
In my thread "It just doesn't matter", I say that whether jesus existed when the bible was written and by whom, just doesn't matter. Until christians can actually prove a god (meaning close the gap with credible evidence) there is no god.
So you stated:
“Fact:
God is a theory.
The god theory has never been proven.
By default, there is no god.”
That doesn’t make sense to me. It seems like you’re saying any unproven theory is by default incorrect? Or stated another way until a theory is proven it is false. It seems to me that the truth of a theory isnindependant of whether or not I am able to sufficiently prove to someone that it is true. For example, some people believe vaccinating children is harmful. Some believe it is beneficial. One or the other harm or benefit is the truth independent of my ability or inability to prove this.
@AJ777
Your scenario is a false premiss. Vaccination is not relevant. I could go on endlessly about that issue but I won't on this thread.
The real state:
There are a number of things that are just theories that we just don't believe and should not believe until they are proven. I submitted the tooth fairy as an example hoping you would understand.
Here is another one.
"God is real" an unsubstantiated theory.
Substitute "god" with "Leprechaun".
Now it reads "Leprechauns are real". Also, an unsubstantiated theory. But we don't question anyone that says "There is no such thing as a Leprechaun". We accept that there are no Leprechauns, were never any Leprechauns as fact, that is a myth born out of folklore and nothing more.
Also, there is a difference in a theory, and a scientific theory. A theory is just something someone dreamed up. A scientific theory has research, facts, data, to support the theory. It isn't something that someone pulled out of thin air. Or an imagination used to explain the unknown.
You can’t prove that something doesn’t exist. In order to do this one would have to posess enough true knowledge about this thing proving that it does exist. Your argument is self defeating. Theism has evidence for its validity that is scientific and philosophical and logical. There are true facts and research behind these arguments. Are you saying the only way to prove something is true is by using the scientific method?
@AJ777 This is a baldfaced lie: "Theism has evidence for its validity that is scientific and philosophical and logical. There are true facts and research behind these arguments. "
I am not obligated to disprove something.
My argument is logical not "self-defeating".
"Theism has evidence for its validity that is scientific and philosophical and logical."
Could you demonstrate some please, as I find this claim highly dubious. One only has to turn on major news channel to know this is false hyperbole. Scientific evidence for the existence of god would make the news, trust me.
@aj777
God is a hypothetical not a theory!
Evolution is fact the theory of evolution is what explains that fact
Actually AJ777 I believe the goal of the debate is to assist the wider audience in making their minds up. Debates take place between people who've already decided upon their position. Very occasionally you'll get a person have a moment of clarity and realise they've got it wrong but this is rare (even me, I try so hard to be completely open minded but you'll do well to convince me even though I'm genuinely trying to see the other side).
What Mycob said is absolutely spot on. Theists will almost always begin with the end in mind, this is fine of course so long as your goal is to not reach the end at all costs. If you're so blinkered on the end goal that you dodge the gap then you end up at a false conclusion.
Benjiboi, I agree I think many theists have a blind faith that is not based in reason. I believe one should follow he Truth where it leads.
AJ777, what is truth? Please describe your usage of that word.
Truth is that which corresponds to reality, and matches it’s object. Truth is telling it like it really is.
@AJ777 so why don't you practice it?
Can you give an example of my dishonesty? Also, if your goal is only to win a debate then does truth really matter to you.
@AJ777
1) You lie because you say that your god is real yet provide no proof whatsoever. You say that there is proof but never provide it or even reference said proof. That is a lie by action.
2) You lie because you justify instead of accept the facts
3) I never said it was "my goal" to win a debate. I said that is the object of a debate to win it.
4) I care about truth, that is why I demand credible facts.
The choice to not engage in conversation affects no one other than the person not engaging lol.
Aside from your throw away comment, please let us know what you think about the statement ??
I'm atheist now. You're not allowed to ask me such a specific question. Water it down for me, so I can change the subject.
John 61x breezy
You put an A in front of theist... you were supposed to type "I'm a theist" it's ok we all knew what you meant
Nope, I'm atheist now. Accept me into your circlejerk please. I'm a minority now and I feel oppressed by all the Christian propaganda around me.
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Well welcome aboard. So what do you think about theistic claims?
I'm allowed to think? Don't I just have to regurgitate something about how religion is a cancerous evil in the world? How faith is a blind man's consolation?
Oh yeah, and they're to blame for slavery, taxes, and Justin Bieber.
We know you don't think..
I know. That's why I love atheism. I can accuse Christians of not thinking, while I avoiding thinking myself. Its the best of both worlds.
Well welcome aboard. So what do you think about theistic claims?
John, John, John, you have gone off of the rails. I guess your lithium drip is empty.
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