A couple in Oregon were sentenced to more than six years in prison for refusing to seek medical help for their premature twin baby, resulting in her death. They and church members prayed for her instead.
I would appreciate comments from theists on these events and consequences.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/tasneemnashrulla/religious-parents-refuse-medic...
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@Alembe:
What a sorry bunch of morons and hypocrites.
They sought regular veterinary care for their pet dog and cat.
!
It was all in the Intelligent Designer's plan. The child lives with the Almighty in eternal bliss. (feel free to add you own euphemism)
Maybe they prayed to the wrong god? Try Serapis next. I know the origin of that one is rather shifty, but you never know! If that fails, there's only a couple of thousand more to go...
All of the other 60 people involved in that prayer fuckup should be inside with them as well. Not one bothered to call for medical assistance. They are all guilty of aiding and abetting a murder. Surprise, no miracle here.
More proof of ID, the child experienced a hideous painful death, therefore experience is at least part of reality, therefore the universe was created by an ID.
You guys are missing the big picture....so am I.
Oh wait got it, God loved those babies so much he took them straight to heaven etc.
And next week we will hear Christians lamenting the fact that there was another honor killing while going "Not Real Christians!" at stories like this.
It's child abuse pure and simple. In a larger context it does call into question again why we ever give superstitious beliefs any preferential treatment in 21st century societies. This is the result of not having empathetic morality, and instead cherry picking bronze age superstitions for your morals. As I've said before how can you respect the beliefs of people who can cry over an insentient balstocyst but show no empathy to the suffering of fully formed humans, children and adults who suffer abuse and prejudice because they happen to be gay or trans.
In a twisted way, I have some respect for religious people who do crazy shit like this. At least they are consistent with their non-sense. Unlike the Christians most of us know: that pay lip-service to the power of prayer when things are going well; but call an ambulance the instant things go badly.
I know what you mean. Delusional is not the same as intransigent willful hypocrisy.
Even I have to agree with. Respect it, but not agree with it.
And I know none of you said anything close to agreeing with it. Just stating my opinion, which usually counts for nothing. Ask my dead wife, she'll definitely tell you what she always thought of my opinions... ;-P
rmfr
I do to, in a way, have respect for people that act what they preach. Problem is of course when such conviction takes the life of an innocent child that had real help available and the child was to young to choose for him/her self
@ Nyarlathotep: I have some respect for religious people who do crazy shit like this. At least they are consistent with their non-sense.
I actually agree with that. There is at least something truthful about honestly insane. It does not make it right and they deserved the jail terms, and they are still accountable for their delusions. I just appreciate the flat out honesty.
You know who I also have some pity for, people like Edgar Welch. He is the guy who bought into that stupid conspiracy theory "pizzagate" (essentially that Clinton and the Democratic party were using restaurants in a child sex/satanic abuse crime ring). But instead of just sitting around making up more and more non-sense; he went out and (foolishly) tried to shut down this (fictional) ring. He really did believe it was true!
Gosh. I remember that now. I was in NC at that time. My girlfriend (the trans) and I saw it on the news. I remember we looked at each other as if we were going to say something, then neither of us could say anything. We were both like:
"Uhmm... Wow... Uhmm... ***blank stares***
rmfr
I think that if prayers worked, there would have been more than one successful crusade. I mean, if God cared about answering our prayers at all, it would surely be to reclaim his own holy land.
If a deity cared about answering prayers, then it would make the theological concept of free will even more of a nonsense than it already is. The argument from evil certainly gets a 'shot in the arm' from the ridiculous and unevidenced idea that a deity meddles in what can only objectively be viewed as a deeply malevolent and capricious way.
What's the theist adage "there but for the grace of god go I" or more accurately there by god's grace goes someone else. Sorry to the parents who watch their infant child die in agony of an incurable debilitating and degenerative disease, but you didn't win the 'god lottery', he was busy showing a drug addict in prison for rape and murder that they were on the wrong path.
Best of all is when their 'god lottery' gives negative results and they blame an equally capricious and equally unevidenced Satan. As if this somehow excuses their deities sadistic caprice, one assumes this deity could as easily thwart Satan's plans as it could meddle in anyone else's, but this seems lost on them. More navel gazing, more hand ringing, and something mumbled about free will again, and around their rationalisations go on and on.
Yep. Once again powerful evidence there is no god. The few real world things people attribute god to still these days. Like prayer, has shown zero results above pure random chance.
"Holy ground" has shown no special properties (other than some of these holy places stained red in blood in endless conflict over them.)
"Holy water" no perceptible qualities outside of normal water.
A particular religious group has never shown a god like favor dominance over another group. The more aggressive religions have shown greater numbers of followers, and more concentrated wealth and power to those at the top of the religion, but no other advantage other than advantage of people giving advantage to other people in exchange for a few several thousand year old heavily modified and edited ideas.
I can't believe everybody is missing the obvious point here. As I am sure most any TRUE Christian would point out, the mother and father simply did not have enough faith. Their praying was not sincere enough, and one or both of them had a brief moment of doubt during the event. More than likely, though, there was that one skeptical, doubting-Thomas asshole in the group tainting the prayer waters by pestering everybody with lame remarks like, "Shouldn't we call the medics?" Or maybe some nonsense like, "Maybe we should take them to the hospital." And even if he wasn't vocal about it, he was probably standing off to the side THINKING it and wringing his hands all worried and shit. Definitely not a team player. All it takes is just that ONE guy lacking TRUE faith to completely fuck up a great prayer session. As it is, they are lucky God punished their lack of faith by taking only one of the babies. And if the church is smart they will exile that one doubting son-of-a-bitch so that he can't screw up the next medical crisis. It's a true miracle the other child survived. God is so great and merciful.
Now, all that being said, every single delusioned crackpot who was in that room at the time of that incident should have their asses tossed in prison along with the parents. What a bunch of morons. Pathetic. ...*shaking head sadly*....
Prayer is like a gambling addiction. You never talk about the loses.
In one of the Gallery images here on AR.
rmfr
For all those theists who say religion causes no harm.... Ummmmm..... *pointing to OP*....
The parents were practicing freedom of religion. So if a baker can refuse to make a cake for a gay couple because of his deeply held religious convictions then parents should be able to just use prayer and oil to cure their sick children. Besides if Yahweh wanted to save them he would. Remember David's and Bathsheba's first son?
As it says in Wisdom 3:16-19 (CEB) = "16 The children of adulterers, however, will come to nothing. The seed of people who have sex with others in violation of the Law will dry up. 17 Even if they live to old age, their lives won’t amount to anything. In their old age they will have no honor. 18 If they die young, they will have no hope or comfort on Judgment Day. 19 The family line of those who don’t do what is right will come to a bad end."
The parents must have been worshiping the wrong God.
So when they get out of prison will they be able to reclaim their surviving daughter?