I get mixed feelings about the Howard Storm story (the man who used to be an atheist but is now a reverend). Some of it seems like a hallucination, and some seems like it is too detailed. I think he is being genuine as he became a reverend after, so maybe he added things to it?
https://www.near-death.com/experiences/ ... storm.html
I think the beginning of his story seems like a hallucination:
1) he is supposedly dead, and in spirit forum, yet he has nerves and can feel the cold floor or his hands making fists.
2) his experience takes place in the hospital room and the rest is in the hallway of the hospital. It is just a long dark road. He probably didn't pay attention to how the hospital looked, so his brain had to fill in the gaps of the way it looked.
3) the demons mock his hospital gown. Why would his "soul" be wearing his hospital clothes?
4) These shadow looking demons are attacking him. Anyone could interpret this as anything. However, Storm assumes he is in hell, therefore he thinks of Jesus, and this makes his experience automatically religious.
The only things I don't get are:
1) How could his experience be so detailed?
2) he talks about having infinite knowledge, and says everyone's NDE is different to suit them and their beliefs.
3) He asks detailed questions about the USA economy and future wars and gets answers
4) he sees 80 new primary colours
I think he seems genuine. I don't think he lied about his whole experience. He did become a church reverend. It's just that his account was so detailed. Is it possible he really believes he had the experience, but that he added stuff to it later to make his story more convincing?
Also, what do you think are the odds his story was real?
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Howard Stern is more amusing.
And far more believable.
RT, go back to all the other threads you started and read everybody's advice on those. Nothing has changed. All advice is the same. This Howard Storm's experience is no different than any of the others. Same shit. Different day. And, yes, like Cronus said, Howard Stern is much more amusing and entertaining. Now run along and go find some funny videos to watch.
@Tin-man
But this man was an atheist and became a reverend. I don't doubt his sincerity. I'm just thinking, how can a person have such a detailed account of seeing new colours, getting told about USA and the economy, why people have different NDEs? So many people have similar claims, seeing new things they never saw before, having new knowledge, speaking telepathically. I just wonder, is it possible that he was being genuine but embellished or added to his experience?
Argumentum ad ignorantiam, yet again. What evidence can you demonstrate that any of claims are valid? What evidence can you demonstrate that if they are they validate his beliefs in a deity?
@RT Re: "But this man was an atheist and became a reverend."
RT, buddy, I don't care if the man claims he was Bruce Lee and then said he "became" Pippi Longstockings. People can CLAIM anything they want. Doesn't make it true. As we have told you countless times already, NOBODY knows for certain exactly what the guy did or did not experience. All you have is his "story". Big whoop. Hell, I can make up any kind of story you want, and I have already made up a couple on this site just for fun. (See my "Gospels of Tin-Man" in Mykcob's "Fallacy of Testimony" thread.) Once again, dude, if you are truly only sixteen years old, you really need a better hobby. Lay off the NDE's and demon crap for awhile.
@ Tin-Man
do you think its possible that these people are trying to be honest though?
@RT Re: People being honest
Bud, I have NO IDEA whether they are trying to be honest or not, and - quite frankly - I really don't care one way or the other. Does not matter in the least little bit. It is either: A. They had a legitimate psychological experience during which time they had some type of hallucinations, in which case it is very possible those experiences seemed absolutely real to them, which means they are not lying about what they "saw". Or, it is B. They are making shit up and lying out their ass about it for some such reason(s) as wanting attention or monetary gain. Either way, it ain't because of demons or any other such entities. How many more times do you have to be told the same things over and over before you actually start listening?
Russian-Tank
What evidence can you demonstrate that any of those claims are valid? What evidence can you demonstrate that if they are they validate his beliefs in a deity?
@Russian-Tank
Some people have a few wires shorted out in their heads, and to them, what they experience is very real. You have probably seen news that tell a sad tale of someone murdering others because they had voices in their heads, or truly believed there were demons or something. For them, it is not fake or made up, it is as real as it could be.
The point is, just because someone truly believes something, that does not make it a reality.
@ Tin-Man
do you think its possible that these people are trying to be honest though?
Russian-Tank
What evidence can you demonstrate that any of those claims are valid? What evidence can you demonstrate that if they are they validate his beliefs in a deity?
@Tin-man
But this man was an atheist and became a reverend. I don't doubt his sincerity. I'm just thinking, how can a person have such a detailed account of seeing new colours, getting told about USA and the economy, why people have different NDEs? So many people have similar claims, seeing new things they never saw before, having new knowledge, speaking telepathically. I just wonder, is it possible that he was being genuine but embellished or added to his experience?
Russian-Tank
What evidence can you demonstrate that any of those claims are valid? What evidence can you demonstrate that if they are they validate his beliefs in a deity?
No problem at all. Everyone is atheist before they are theist. Frankly, most atheists who have not taken the time to understand atheism are still believers. Believing in atheism or believing that you were once an atheist is still operating in the world on a system of belief. It really is no different at all than being religious.
1. OBEs are detailed because our minds are capable of detail.
2. Non-verifiable claims. NDEs are different because brains and people are different. You can get the same sense of euphoria and knowledge from drugs or delusion. It does not make them real.
3. Imagination is a wonderful thing.
4. The human eye can recognize the difference between some 7,000,000 colors. Asserting that there are new primary colors is just an assertion. To that all that can be said is "Please demonstrate your assertion to be true."
George Carlin didnt cut it then?
I'm done.
@Grinseed
This dead horse has been beat so much there are barely any signs of trace DNA left to determine if it ever really was a horse in the first place.
Its not the horse DNA, it's the armour plating.
@Grinseed. Re: Armour plating
Ah. Well then, that would definitely explain that hollow metallic "clang" and ringing sound I hear every time somebody hits it. I thought it was just my tinnitus acting up again.
I live in Kentucky. If there is one thing Kentuckians are good at is bullshit.
@Russian-tank: "I think he is being genuine as he became a reverend after"
As an atheist you get discrimination, disapproval, death threats even. But as a reverend you get respect, money, and lots of perks. It's money for nothing. Remember the Dire Straits song? That could be about preachers.
Oh, that ain't workin' that's the way you do it
Get your money for nothin', get your chicks for free
Whether or not he sincerely believes his experience has nothing, nada, zero, zilch whether it is true.
If the concept that if enough people believe something does make it a reality, then every Easter a huge bunny rabbit would appear, and on Christmas Santa would actually be in the sky. That is because many, many millions of very young minds sincerely believe the stories.
But as we all know, eventually children grow up and critically examine such stories as the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus and come to the conclusion that it is just a big pile of manure. This is the page of the book you need to turn over, give such stories a critical examination instead of fixating on fables and wild stories.
Your obsession will only do you harm, please pull yourself out of this rut.
Why do you continue with this notation that hallucinations are not detailed?!? How many times have you made this same assumption, how many times do we have to tell you that it is a silly assumption?
Think about it this way: many times we can't tell hallucinations apart from reality; therefore those hallucinations must be at least as "detailed" as reality. So why do you keep claiming otherwise?!?
For fuck sake, stop reading this bullshit, because that is what it is.
It matters not a bit what this NDE believer believes.
There's a bunch of guys in mental hospitals that believe they are Napoleon Bonaparte.
But, the French army doesn't take orders from them.
to RT -
back at it again with his delusions
please stop stop stop STOP!!!
find something else interesting, but not this come on lad.
you're not even listening to us. whats the point of going through this again?
jesus f****** christ!
To be fair:
1. the experience is so detailed because Storm has had time to embellish and rfine his bullshit story
2. no-one has infinite knowledge and each NDE is coloured by each individual's ability to decieve themselves.
3. asking questions is not unusual anywhere but clsiming to get answers about the future from a supernatural source has always been a problem and just plain false.
4. there are and only have been three primary colours..this is the most obvious part of all Storm's bullshit
His whole story is a lie.
Typed in my tea break.
Now go watch some Laurel and Hardy.
And here you go again Russian Tank.
1) Howard Stern is a SHOCK JOCK. He programs for the most controversy and shock. You can't believe anything that is on his show.
2) There are PLENTY of so-called former "atheists" that claim that they decided to become christian. I don't believe any of them. It's like Agnostic Believer on this forum. He claims once a week that he is an atheist, then he turns right around and starts preaching and proselytizing. He has NEVER been an atheist...EVER!
RT you have to quit believing the propaganda.