The Israeli Palestinian conflict has recently peaked my interest, and found that the most important reason for the existence of Israel is religiously influenced, if not based. Similarly the Palestinian refugees won’t exist till this generation if not some weird reason (I.e. displacement from their homes). I try to take a very unbiased view since I come from a background which detest Israel. Anyhow tell your opinion and why, and if I have written anything false please correct me, for my interest in this matter is fairly recent. Thank you...
Subscription Note:
Choosing to subscribe to this topic will automatically register you for email notifications for comments and updates on this thread.
Email notifications will be sent out daily by default unless specified otherwise on your account which you can edit by going to your userpage here and clicking on the subscriptions tab.
Unfortunately, I think both sides think they have a God-given right to the land, which trumps things like peace and international conventions.
The UN in 1947 recognized that a two-state solution was preferable. Both sides have a legitimate claim to land in the region based on the principle of self-determination.
The truth is, there will be numerous countries around the world that you would not wish to recognize as states, whether because of an appalling record on human rights, or because of extrajudicial killing, or because of sketchy claims to sovereignty. But it would not be practical for example to refuse to recognize the People's Republic of China as a state because you do not recognize the legitimacy of the government, or to refuse to recognize Syria as a state because of how its government treats its civilians, or to refuse to recognize states in the Americas because you see them as a result of colonialism.
They both need to blow each other to Hell and leave the rest of the world alone, America needs to step back and allow Israel to do as it likes. Dealing with one tyrant is easier than dealing with two. Israel can sink or swim on its own.
The humanistic side of me disagree with you, but the pragmatic one agree lol.
The current problem has its roots in the Zionist movement started by Theodor Herzl with his plan for creating a Jewish State in Palestine that he wrote in his book The Jewish State. You need to read his book to understand the situation =
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/quot-the-jewish-state-quot-theodor-.... There are several formats of it on the internet so just Google Theodor Herzl Jewish State if you don't like this one.
And just like in the Bible they invaded the land, stole it, and displaced the original inhabitants. It is a First Commandment event in real time.
Exodus 34:11-16 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=exodus+34%3A11-16&version=C...
I think the one state solution is politically impossible. I think the two state solution is politically impossible.
I think instead we will continue to see what we've seen for decades: bantustans.
I actually think as US global power continues to wane, along with all of the US allies breaking up (if things continue the way they are.) Israel without the support of US plus other allies will actually have to fend for itself, changing the balance of power greatly. And that transition will not be smooth, but will be slow moving. We can instead just count on an escalation of bloodshed and violence as the US and others continue their trend towards isolation.
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
▮ I am an atheist that always likes a good debate. ▮
▮ Please include @LogicFTW in responses directed to me. ▮
▮ Useful list on forum usage. A.R. Member since 2016. ▮
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
The Iranians sure are dragging their feet on building some nukes.
I personally dont think the state of israel should exist. The justification for setting up the country on what was already palestinian land was basically ' well centuries ago there were people with the same religion as us (judaism) living here so i suppose that gives us the right to take over this country'. However i feel this isnt the logic a lot of palestinians use. A lot of them are only religously motivated who feel that no non-muslims should live on those lands.
The history of the world is littered with cases of "people moving in on" other peoples land, usually by force. It just so happens that lately that sort of activity has mostly died down, as it has been proven that guerrilla warfare tactics can resist any army for as long as it takes. As war supplies an endless amount of angry recruits for the "resistance" side.
Toss in "god and heaven" and these recruits willing to die for their cause can resist even if severely "out gunned," and can be highly effective in this resistance. Often times, drugs are used as well.
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
▮ I am an atheist that always likes a good debate. ▮
▮ Please include @LogicFTW in responses directed to me. ▮
▮ Useful list on forum usage. A.R. Member since 2016. ▮
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
The problem is that the land area is too small and there aren't enough natural resources to support the growth in population going forward. At some point the Zephaniah 1:2:3 solution will be put into effect.
Peace be upon he who said: “religion poisons everything”
The optimal solution would be to annoy both sides by making the UN run everything, but that would probably start a war.
@OP
The most important (if not everything) you need to know about the internationally illegal Israel occupation of Palestine according to the UN (not just Galloway).
6 mins clip
https://youtu.be/_HEZ5CYUP0U
@Searching for truth, the UN had a two-state solution for the Palestine region in 1947, which the state of Israel was willing to abide by when it was founded in 1948. Unfortunately, a coalition of Arabs countries decided to wage war against Israel instead.
I agree though that Israel should cede any territory it won from the Arabs in the wars since 1948, and should stop building settlements outside its legal territory.
I say nuke them until its a pond.
I am so sick and tired of hearing how these two peoples were given the land by some damned Sky Faerie.
"Kill them all and let God deal with them."
;-P
rmfr
I know you say that with a huge heaping dose of sarcasm, but if we were to nuke even just israel to a "pond." The resulting ash cloud from the detonations will result in nuclear winter. Nuclear warfare really is MAD (mutually assured destruction.)
For instance: if say Russia or the US were to launch even 1/10th of their nuclear weapons at the other country, the result would be nearly all life on earth wiped out, everywhere, not just the countries struck by the nukes. (In fact the people at ground zero of the nukes would probably be considered the lucky ones, as pretty much everyone else slowly dies of starvation.)
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
▮ I am an atheist that always likes a good debate. ▮
▮ Please include @LogicFTW in responses directed to me. ▮
▮ Useful list on forum usage. A.R. Member since 2016. ▮
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
@ Logic
You nailed it dude. A HUGE HEAPING PILE of sarcasm. Can anyone honestly think I would condone the use of nuclear weapons on anyone? Hell, that would turn American into pariah nation. So yes it was a facetiously sarcastic joke.
And another joke. If we turned that area into a radioactive wasteland, they wouldn't fight over it. Maybe...
rmfr
I disagree. After nuking It could then become holy radioactive wasteland and they would still fight over it. Its where Abraham buried Sara and he paid good money for it. His ancestors own it and Genesis holds the title deed.
arakish,
"I say nuke them until its a pond."
That is such a biblical opinion straight from Zephaniah 1:2-3 (CEB) = "I will wipe out everything from the earth, says the Lord.
3
I will destroy humanity and the beasts;
I will destroy the birds in the sky and the fish in the sea.
I will make the wicked into a heap of ruins;
I will eliminate humanity from the earth, says the Lord."
@ Diotrephes
Had to read that one. Eerily similar. Spooky.
And yet those Religious Absolutists just cannot see why we say if their deity existed, it is the most horrific and terrifying monster to ever haunt humanity.
rmfr
arakish,
The biblical God was simply the series of men who ruled the dominant Middle Eastern empire at a particular time. Sometimes it was the Egyptian Pharaoh, other times it was the Assyrian, Persian, or Babylonian emperor or even a high priest or two. The Israelites adopted all of them as their God Yahweh, the God of the Hebrews and the God of the armies. The biblical God bit the dust when the Babylonian Empire collapsed and the Babylonian Emperor died. That is why he has never been seen since and he is not ever going to come back.
The deity seems to be a lunatic because the various men were nuts. And the members of the committee who wrote the Bible added all kinds of hints to show that they were just doing an elaborate prank.
The impetus to return Jews to Palestine goes further bsck than Herzl. The Puritans in their oppodition to the Catholic and Episcopalian Churches pressed for the return of Jews first to England, they had been banished by Edward I who owed them money for his Crusades. Cromwell lifted the banishment.
Why? Because the Puritans in their love of the OT found prophecies that declared Jesus's second coming could only happen if the Jews were returned to the Promised Land from 'the four corners of the earth after which they would all willingly convert to Christianity and the world would be ruled in peace snd prosperity foreever.
This idea was popular in England right up to the 20th C but gained more practical drive from politics than religion. Balfour signed his declaration in an attempt to arouse the many people with Jewish names in the newly formed Communist Russia to rejoin the fight in Ww1.
Grinseed,
It's too bad the dummies didn't read the entire fairy tale. Sodom has to be rebuilt to its former glory, Egypt has to be empty of people for 40 years, all the people and animals in Israel must be killed, and a magic number of believers must be killed before Yeshua returns. How stupid do people have to be to base national and foreign policy on a fairy tale?
@Diotrephes
Pretty stupid because most if not all modern governments still do it today.
Stronger will get the land eventually, does not matter who's right and who's wrong.