It's been heavily debated whether the phrase "one nation under God" should be removed from the Pledge of Allegiance. Everyday students in public schools recite these words, regardless of their viewpoints. This, of course, promotes the Christian doctrine and, essentially, encourages Americans to accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. As an atheist, I object to this. As an American, I object to this. Public schools should not have a bias towards any religion, considering they are funded by taxpayers.
Unfortunately, I made the mistake of discussing this was a born-again Christian. He quickly dismissed this idea, stating that Christian values are the foundation for this country and, as a result, should not be changed. He also believed that "one nation under God" applied to religions other than Christianity, and didn't assert a bias towards Christianity.
I politely disagreed; "one nation under God" only applies to a select group. "God" is singular, eliminating any polytheistic religions, such as Hinduism. The term "God" does not equate to "Allah", meaning this phrase doesn't apply to Islam. Lastly, Buddhists and secular thinkers refute the existence of a deity. There are only four major world religions and only one major religion applies to this phrase.
If anyone else has anything else to add, I would love to hear it! - Belle Marie
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Being a Russian who just moved to America, I have to say: Wait, WHAT?!
What what?
I did not know that.
Then it is significant that you realize that there is neither legal nor physical obligation to recite the pledge, under any circumstance.
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Attach Image/Video?:
Mind if I download that Prag?
Of course not, just keep my name out of it when you start printing out copies... :D
Your doomed, Prag. Jk
I'd suggest that the nation was also founded on slavery (check the Constitution), perhaps your friend thinks that shouldn't change either.
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Treaty of Tripoli, unanimously approved by the Senate:
http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/treaty_tripoli.html
"Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion;..."
You could also assert that having a teacher who is Christian produces a bias in the education system. Does that sound reasonable?
M. V. Reeves - "You could also assert that having a teacher who is Christian produces a bias in the education system."
It certainly has in the past.
Nyarlathotep:
If both the teacher and the Pledge cause a bias, and the bias is the complaint, do you posit that we ought treat all such sources of bias the same way?
M. V. Reeves - "If both the teacher and the Pledge cause a bias"
The pledge is a religious message; an explicit, intentional endorsement of a certain brand of religion, and can easily be dealt with. Human bias is a much tougher nut to crack.
If you could prove that the teacher imposed a bias, would you posit to treat it as any other source of bias?
I'm not quite sure how to answer you question: If it is deliberate, they should be removed. If it is accidental, then less harsh measures would seem appropriate.
I can work with the accidental.
No, you can't a teacher can hold any individual personal view. If said teacher asserted those views then there is a clear problem. Reciting the pledge in its present form is forced indoctrination or at least alienation for those who by virtue of whom they are, do not participate.
What was that about someone trolling, Reeves?
Nothing, Forres. I have unpublished the post because I expect that it will be interpreted as baiting. I suggest that you do the same with yours to avoid having appeared to have responded to a nonextant post.
"Under God". Methinks that this is literally much ado over nothing.
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I wouldn't use that umbrella on a rainy day...
That's ironic, as such metaphors are trite.
Trite or not, they are a part of my usual conversation. Say what you will.
Actually, I meant it as a compliment. I thought you were being doubly clever.
Ah, my apologies.
Two things.
1) This nation was not based on christian values at all. It was based on the idea of individual rights. It is a nation of laws not of men.
2) When people (school children) are requested to say the pledge, now in it's altered form (since 1954), yes kids don't have to participate, but that is alienating those that are not christian. It is a clear violation of those kids civil rights. It's telling those kids that they are not patriots because they are not christian. I can't believe people cannot see that. It is plain as day. In fact I suspect that christian know it and just use the excuse that "you don't have to participate", as a way to skirt the law.
God bless America at baseball games, one nation under god, all of these things and things similar are clear attempts to alienate non-christians.
I am sick and tired of christians forcing their ideology into people's lives and then saying, you don't have to participate if you don't want to. Then screaming that christian's freedom of speech has been violated. Businesses have an obligation just as much as government to not alienate based on individual rights. It is not a violation of a business's freedom of speech to end a practice that subjugates or alienates people based on religion. Businesses are not individuals and therefore have no rights along those lines. Private businesses that serve the general public must operate in a secular manner in a free society.
I know. As someone who is still stuck in the system, it pisses me off to no end. People say "Your not a patriot?" No, I say, I'm just an atheist. The glares and accusations ensue.
At elementary school in the UK we were made to recite the lord's prayer every morning. Although we knew the words by heart, few of us really understood their meaning, especially the bit at the end about "our men" (amen). Before we got to that point in the morning assembly, the principal would instruct the Jewish kids to leave the hall. So we all thought the Jewish kids were weird, and I guess they felt isolated and ostracized.
When we went to the movies, we had to stand and sing "God Save the Queen" while watching a short film of our sovereign inspecting her armed forces. Again, no-one really understood the words. What on Earth does "send her victorious" mean? But to remain seated and silent was to invite verbal and possibly physical abuse from those around us. I recall a Saturday morning matinee for kids where the theater manager came out and yelled at us for not showing proper respect and refused to show us our toons until we did the national anthem right.
Forcing kids to chant and salute a flag or sing hymns is unethical in my view. They don't understand the words or their significance. Saying kids are able to opt out just shows a lack of understanding about child psychology. No kid wants to be singled out as somehow different from the rest.
I think doing anything "under god" should be limited to consenting adults.
BelleMarie: "It's been heavily debated whether the phrase "one nation under God" should be removed from the Pledge of Allegiance"
I will go one step further. The Pledge of Allegiance should be removed from the schools. Are they afraid kids won't know which country they live in if they are not reminded everyday? Why a piece of cloth? Why are not the values of liberty, tolerance, equality discussed in an intelligent and inspiring way? I love living in the U.S. and I resented and resisted repeating this tripe everyday in school. I still don't say it.
A high court (I'm not sure if it was the Supreme Court) reviewed "in God we trust" and bizarrely remarked that it was a generic reference to god and did not in fact implicate the state in supporting religion. Asking a deity to place us under his protection definitely sets off the alarms on my smell test of state supported religion.
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