But the "No true Scotsman" fallacy is perhaps the most misapplied argumentative fallacy.
It is more or less a fancy way of saying appeal to purity of universal generalizations; a lack of basis is required.
So, for example:
> "No true Christian would vote democrat"
would be a "no true Scotsman" argument,
but saying
> "No true Christian supports violence," would not.
- this is a valid argument due to the Gospels actually discussing this topic and the Gospels (or the biographies containing the words and teachings of Jesus/God) being the core books of Christian belief;
but whether that argument is true or not is something debatable, it CANNOT be dismissed as a "No true Scotsman" fallacy.
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34. "Do not assume that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35. For I have come to turn ‘A man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law"/
“I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war. His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.” He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: King of kings and Lord of lords.
“And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, ‘Come, gather together for the great supper of God, so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.’
No further witnesses m'lud.....
If supporting violence disqualifies you from being a true Christian; then I have never met a true Christian.
I mean that's how its supposed to be; which is why the last thing I care about is what other Christians have done or are currently doing. I'd rather let God call me a Christian, and I call myself an atheist if that were an option. Because clearly, what the label represents is not obtained by simply wearing the label: "Do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father,’ for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham" (Matthew 3:9, ESV).
Rather wait around for imaginary man in the sky to tell you that you are correct. I like it. In that way you will never be held accountable for what you believe in your lifetime! And whatever you do believe can not be challenged because you will not find out if you are wrong or not nor could anyone else tell you are wrong.
I'm only accountable to myself and those whose opinion matters to me.
Accountable only to yourself for everything or for just some things?
I can't think of any exceptions.
I’m unsure what you mean by accountability. Are you suggesting that if, for instance, you injure someone via your own negligence you are accountable only to yourself and not the injured party?
What makes someone's opinion matter to you?
I imagine you would care about anyone that pointed a deadly weapon at you, say a loaded gun, their opinion would matter to you a great deal. Probably a lot more (at the time) then other people's opinion of some imaginary sky man/god thingy.
Really the only time the imaginary man in the sky/god thingy opinion matters to you is when you think you will be standing before him to be judged. If there is no heaven/hell/afterlife would you care at all what the your imaginary sky buddy thinks? I mean why would you, such an imaginary entity has no impact on you in this life, and if no afterlife no impact on you at all. It is like worrying about a particular non descript grain of sand sitting on some random sandy beach somewhere.
I could certainly see you worrying about being right or not, but then that is admitting that you actually care about the opinion of atheist everywhere.
I hardly ever think of heaven or hell.
Atheists are not the Prometheus of right and wrong; therefore I can care about right and wrong, without caring about the opinions of atheists.
That is good you hardly think of heaven and hell.
I do not think myself or any atheist ever claim to be: "Prometheus of right and wrong;" Then again I hope no one atheist or not does think as such.
If no one is the prometheus of right and wrong and you can care about right and wrong, that is great. Instead of just excluding atheist, why not exclude everyone that is not the prometheus of right and wrong, form your own opinions, make sure your opinions does not trample others rights, and you are off to a great start, but be aware: other theist might start calling you an atheist if you practice what you say here.
I practice what I say and no one has ever called me an atheist. Perhaps it is you that is a Christian, if you find yourself agreeing with me.
Have you ever explained before to others (theist) that:
"the last thing I care about is what other Christians have done or are currently doing. "
" I'd rather let God call me a Christian, and I call myself an atheist if that were an option."
"I'm only accountable to myself and those whose opinion matters to me." - accountable to yourself for everything - "I can't think of any exceptions"
"I hardly ever think of heaven or hell."
Let alone actually practice these things you just said?
In some ways you sound more atheist than I am.
I do care about what christians have done or are currently doing, and I am not even christian.
I definitely would rather call myself an atheist, and if I was completely wrong somehow, and their was a god that wanted us to be christian for him to call me christian, that would be immensely convenient to me if somehow there was an afterlife judgement situation.
I am about as atheist as they come, and I certainly think of the philosophical ramifications of heaven/hell more than: "hardly ever" Of course that is a very subjective term, is hardy ever once a week? It comes up on these boards all the time so I think on it at least that much. It is an interesting if deeply flawed concept. Made more interesting by the fact so many people believe in it and plan their entire lives around it.
To me most major religions use the concept of heaven/hell as a cornerstone to keep people going to church and filling the church coffers to obscene amounts of wealth and power.
I don't have to explain anything to them; its Christian theology. Would you like to see quotes from Scripture and other Christians that corroborate my statements?
A christian scripture quote that says the last thing you should care about is what other christians have done or currently doing? I would like to see that, and I actually would not be too surprised if you found something a bit along those lines because well one thing christian scripture has in abundance is a way to contradict it self on just about everything it says.
Would not mind seeing scripture quote on calling oneself an atheist and let god call me a christian. I really like to see that one, basically I can scream all day and night I am atheist but it does not matter, but this god idea thinks I am a christian and will act accordingly.
How about a scripture saying you are not accountable to god, you are not accountable to anything but yourself. And do not twist this one, truly not being accountable to anyone but yourself absolves you of any reason to follow god, go to church follow the bible, scripture etc. Morals do not apply if you are only accountable to yourself. Otherwise, you would be accountable to yourself AND morals. And not morals you come up with yourself but morals that came from a book/page or another person.
"...and I actually would not be too surprised if you found something a bit along those lines because well one thing christian scripture has in abundance is a way to contradict it self on just about everything it says.
Great, then I won't bother.
Thats cool, and I will also consider you to have no rebuttal to sounding a lot like an atheist with your own words.
I have considered more than once you are actually mostly atheist or pretty much just flat out do not care on way or another, but a bit like me, you like to debate you just take the theist side as you will get more replies that way.
It is difficult to remove an idea from someone's head once they have presumed it; consider Sheldon and his mind-reading skills.
More importantly, if before I substantiated my claims you already decided to categorize them as an internal contradiction within Scripture, then you have locked yourself into an intellectual coffin which I cannot open from the outside.
"consider Sheldon and his mind-reading skills."
You love to make this assertion, care to evidence it, and quote a post of mine to support the claim?
Theists of all stripes have come onto this site and made broad sweeping generalisations about what atheists think, and believe, which is absurd when you consider that beyond a lack of one single belief they can know nothing about any atheist until that individual shares it with them. The same cannot be said of theists, as claiming to be a Muslim, Jew or Christian infers certain things, as they come with a lot of dogma and doctrine. The fact that those religions "holy" books are wildly contradictory aside, it is still reasonable to infer certain things from the claim that someone belongs to one those religions.
I don't care to evidence it.
Breezy "I don't care to evidence it."
Your raison detre, and a suitable epitaph for you no doubt.
Though to be fair to you, evidencing such a lie would be extremely difficult, as I have neither claimed nor implied clairvoyance.
I'm glad your superstitious beliefs are fictional, for your sake. That 9th commandment seems to be something of a stumbling block for you.
The 9th commandment is one of my favorites; particularly after reading Sam Harris' book on the subject.
Favourites to disobey obviously. Which book? never mind, you won't have anything of value to offer.
ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ,
"The 9th commandment is one of my favorites; particularly after reading Sam Harris' book on the subject."
So your favorite commandment is "The first of the first fruits of your land you shall bring to the house of the Lord your God" (Exodus 34:26 NKJV).?
Yes, exactly.
I hope you are being sarcastic. I am also well aware the 10 commandments change in order and context from one bible to the next.
The “I don't care to evidence it.” tactic is one you don’t normally see in debates. You think it will become more common now that he’s established it as one of his go-to responses?
I like it. What an easy way to win all arguments.
Breezy owes me 1 million dollars!
Evidence one may ask?
"I don't care to evidence it." Now where is my 1 million bucks?
.
Wait, what you mean you won't honor my ludicrous claim without evidence? I thought my: "I don't care to evidence it." was bulletproof?? You mean evidence, not faith is what matters in real things? Well shit, maybe I should stop going on and on about faith is all that is needed for a god that created and controls everything!
.
Oh I get it, "I don't care to evidence it." is just a bullshit response that really means "I do not have a good answer but believe me anyways!."
The goal is not to win an argument, but to forfeit before wasting your time. Sheldon is a timewaster and those battles are not worth winning.
Hmm fair enough, you forfeiting the argument is probably agreeable all around. But then what will we debate about?
I actually enjoy debating you, you consistently stick around argue your side even in what can definitely be a hostile environment. I have debated on a few theist dominant debate boards and know what it is like to be in a hostile environment where it is 5,10 or more vs 1.
Unfortunately those sites frequently try to gag me (I follow all posted forum/debate/discussion rules,) or the sites themselves close down, seems like lots of theist organizations do not really want a wide open medium where anyone can debate or have open unregulated discussion.
Sheldon does not seem like a time waster to me though. Nor do you seem like a time waster, to me anyways. Beyond the ability to anonymously debate and get my debate on w/o alienating friends/family that disagree with me, I actually learn all kinds of stuff here and other debate boards/chats etc.
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