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Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
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Interesting, I admire that you research for yourself instead of ignoring or believing anybody.
About the link, look at the papyrus, do you see any bullet form commandments?
most likely, the idea of bullet form commandments didn't even exist.
It is a paragraph, so 'thy shall not kill' has to be understood with the phrases before and after.
Thy shall not kill what?
To get past the interpretations you just need to look at the papyrus and see for yourself.
Aramaic has just consonants, no spaces between each word, no vowels, no punctuation and no capitals.
To give you an example how hard it is to translate it without context.
I am alone here.
can be written as
mlnhr
which can also be translated as
Mole in here.
English makes it harder then Semitic languages to make mistakes in this way, since it is based on vowels and does not make distinction between female and male in the words like other Semitic languages.
Italian, french. Maltese, etc... can easily mix female, male, plural and singular, by changing a single vowel or removing it.
See why Christians got the wrong translation, the context is clearly that their god is making a pact with the Israelites, he is referring to them and not as a general moral law.
When we say;
Don't drink, don't smell and don't taste poison.
We do not mean
1. Don't drink.
2. Don't smell.
3. Don't taste poison
This is logical especially if they are written in a paragraph and not separated by a different line.
It is impossible not to kill anyway.
We kill mosquitoes, flies everyday just by sitting on them sometimes.
This is just a plain stupid interpretation that Christians are happy with.
EDIT:
I am alone here.
can be written as
mlnhr
which can also be translated as
A mole in here.
A Male on her.
etc...
Well, as I said, I am not an expert in Aramaic or its syntax or grammar. This means that even if I do such research myself, I still have to rely to some extent on authority for translation. That said, I am sure that there is more than a simple lack of punctuation at play, given that the language is very different than even modern Hebrew. In many languages, descriptors and verbs have special rules that they follow, as in having to say "house mine" or "house white". It could easily be the case that this language has a rule concerning verbs, as in, all verbs in a sentence having to appear before that which they act upon, or something of that nature. That said, even if I did read it as a bullet point list, there is still the part about it being well in the land that god gave them. That would seem to indicate that these laws are only for the Jews in Judea, not for anyone outside of it, making them fairly meaningless to us.
Oh, and it is actually translated as "though shalt not unlawfully kill" meaning they could kill anyone as long as it was done legally, and it wasn't very hard to find a legal reason to kill someone. Thou shalt not kill unless they wear mixed fabrics, commit adultery, steal, bear false witness, eat pork or shrimp, work on the sabbath, disobey their parents, etc, etc, etc. If you wanted someone dead, it wasn't hard to find a legal reason, so it was more a prohibition against taking action outside the temple governments knowledge, rather than an actual prohibition against killing.
Yea that too.
what i was pointing out, is that if the original is a paragraph
why change it to a bullet form?
why don't you leave it as a paragraph?
Yes the context is simpe.
moses went on the montain to make a covernant with the LORD
He writes it doesn on stone tablets.
The covernant was an agreement between the hebrews and their god.
he was saying that:
If you guys accept me as your god and follow this pact, I will get you a very rich land which would be yours to live in.
(remember they just lost all their land in Egypt, they were like refugees)
Thus he continued:
If you follow this pact and rules I will promise you this land.
What are the rules?
The famous 10 commandments, which are actually 13 or 14.
Now under this context there is no moral law giver.
He was creating a military faction that was going to capture land.
He gave them basic laws that they MUST follow(on the pain of death) to achieve such a goal of the promised land.
Do not kill, refers to not kill each other from the group, "thy neighbor".
Do not steal thy neighbor because you cannot have a well organized military force if you have quarrels among themselves.
You kill/steal somoene inside the faction, his family wil want revenge and they might do it during a battle and might bring disaster in the middle of the battle.
Yahweh in the bible had to even explain to them how to do toilet.
he is dealing with savages with the minds of little kids.
No wonder that he has to explain to them basics like that in the commandments.
Today we take it for-granted but in those times, they were that stupid.
If they see something they like, they take it without worrying too much about the consequence.
In the OT Yahweh is described as a very capricious, insensitive, intolerant, and childish person by Moses himself.
No wonder he was so strict with the Jews, in his eyes he was talking with monkeys that can speak.
I mean to specifically tell someone how to do toilet and write it down in a scroll so you don't forget it, must have been really pissed at them.
I would feel ashamed if my boss had to make me do that on my place of work.
They had to write it down in their holy text too, not just some random note.
Why?
because he must have stepped on one while walking in the military camp.
Yes, stepped on it.
Yahweh is not a spirit, he is treated as a flesh and blood being that eats, sleeps, smells, complains and steps on shit.
http://robertcargill.com/2013/05/02/still-one-of-the-oddest-biblical-com...
Now that is some funny shit! :D
Deuteronomy 23:12-14
"Also you shall have a place outside the camp, where you may go out; and you shall have an implement among your equipment, and when you sit down outside, you shall dig with it and turn and cover your refuse. For the Lord your God walks in the midst of your camp, to deliver you and give your enemies over to you; therefore your camp shall be holy, that He may see no unclean thing among you, and turn away from you."
Picture God angy as hell, trying to scrape some shit of his boot whith a stick, muttering how He is going to send the guilty bastard to Hell to suffer torment for an eternity.
"Picture God angry as hell, trying to scrape some shit of his boot with a stick, muttering how He is going to send the guilty bastard to Hell to suffer torment for an eternity."
Yes that be funny, the only problem is that there is no Hell in the OT, no Devil(spirit).
So if you stick to the context Yahweh was just a very advanced/superior person then the Jews at that time.
Moses treated him not as a god but as a president, he says some horrible things about him in the bible.
here is an other funny story in the bible:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CFbwqyZQF0
I mean only a very stupid person or with an agenda would divide a sentence and ignore the context in Aramiac like the like that.
In the case of the Christians, it is an agenda.
This is all very interesting. (Perhaps we should have had this conversation in the thread "The Ten Commandments" :)
When it comes to the bulleted list of 10 Commandments, this wikipedia article shows some of the selectively chosen dividing of the commandments for diffrent denominations: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments#Traditions_for_numbering
Everyone who thinks but the Bible is "the perfect word of God" should have to look at all the papyrus, and get to be educated on the problems of translating the text.
Yep, most people do not even know that it is a divided sentance which is taken out of context to serve an agenda, even atheists.
Slayer, was there anything specific that caused you to reject Christianity?
Welcome! I guess you focus a lot on the biggest reason why people have faith. It is hard to square yourself with the idea that "this is it". Faith gives people an answer to that scary sounding question. Well, I get that. Our beloved dog died in October, and in a way I would have loved to be able to tell my four year old that our dog "was in doggie heaven" and "he would see her again some day". The same things I am sure you have heard your mother say. Instead, it became my son's first lesson in what your focus SHOULD be: This life is AWESOME. And you only get one. So, enjoy it and make the best of it. Every day. Our mortality is, in a way scary, but also in a larger way a huge part of what DEFINES us. It makes us make the best of every day, it drives us to make the best out of every second. If we lived forever, there would be no impetus, no rush, no hurry to get busy living. And, when death comes, I do not expect to be sad. I expect to be glad that I had a chance to live this fascinating life. And lucky to have had such a wonderful dog. I will be glad that I had my focus on my life while I had the chance. What is next? Anyone who claims to know is a liar. So, since it is unknowable, focus on what you have and what you know.
you are probably a white person, so think about this. all of the people of color who worshiped various gods for thousands of year before the jesus mythology started and then the european violent imposition of jesus on 2 continents (americas and africa) how in the hell can there be any gods of any sort that would allow their worshipers to be fucked over and how can any just god allow his worshipers to fuck over half of the worlds people??!! the simple, logical answer is that there are no gods of any sort.
so stop worrying and be a good person , try to undo some of the bad behavior of our fellow humans and LIVE!!!!
First of Jroslayer, you seem rather hyper. But whatever. Listen, every one feels vastly different on the subject of death. It's pretty normal to feel some apprehension and tention on the subject. To intellectually acknowledge your death and the short span of life is going to unnerve you, for awhile atleast. Mostly because for the longest time there was a prevailing myth that you don't actually die, you keep living in a spiritual world.
However, to replace the myth with only observations from reality, you realize that there is not any proof that you continue existing past this life. How you except that is up to you, and it is bound to change over time.
Personally, my first experiences with the idea was... unpleasant. It's unpleasant to acknowledge that my life and experiences dissapears as the physical information storage device that is my brain, that is essentially who I am, will decompose after my death and everything I am will be wiped clean. However, recognize that you did not exist for billions of years before this existence, so nonexistance is not exactly a torturous experience. You know?
First of Jroslayer, you seem rather hyper. But whatever. Listen, every one feels vastly different on the subject of death. It's pretty normal to feel some apprehension and tention on the subject. To intellectually acknowledge your death and the short span of life is going to unnerve you, for awhile atleast. Mostly because for the longest time there was a prevailing myth that you don't actually die, you keep living in a spiritual world.
However, to replace the myth with only observations from reality, you realize that there is not any proof that you continue existing past this life. How you except that is up to you, and it is bound to change over time.
Personally, my first experiences with the idea was... unpleasant. It's unpleasant to acknowledge that my life and experiences dissapears as the physical information storage device that is my brain, that is essentially who I am, will decompose after my death and everything I am will be wiped clean. However, recognize that you did not exist for billions of years before this existence, so nonexistance is not exactly a torturous experience. You know?
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