Hi there,
First off thank you for reading. I wish to share my thoughts on religion with as to the fact that I wonder if you agree upon it.
I have been a atheïst for all my life. I do believe that there is more than the eye beholds but feel strongly different about religion.
There has been a time where I even wish to experience what the followers of religion did. So I decided to go to church. I chose a Roman catholic one. Which was closeby to work. I prayed there to Maria in this beautifull chapel. I prayed 3 times a week for over 4 weeks. After that I do think a experienced alot of what religion is about.
As I prayed, for mostly people around me. I became gratefull, gratefull of the things I have. Some kind conscious. After praying and taking the time to pay your honors to Maria ( I went all the way ) I left with a sense of relief. Like a weight dropped of my shoulders. I was overcome by comfort. Weird, as I actually thought it wouldn't do anything for me.
Now after I stopped my experiment, I came to the conclusion that people are drawn by comfort to church/religion. As I studied some of my own old bibles ( which I got as a child ) you can read between the lines that religion is a sly crafted weapon. The pen truly is mightier than the sword. As I was reading I came to notice that every headcharacter was meant to believe a spirit of forgiveness and compassion. Most of the times you come to believe ( if he/she truly existed ) he was a rolemodel. This rolemodel would offer alot to its followers. Happiness, wealth, place in heaven and so on. But it ALWAYS needs something in return.
But as you believe the rolemodel to be a just and true person, as he offers so much more, youll be tempted to get naive and with that pass good sensible judgment. Now with the roman catholics it is quite renowned as to what principles they hold.
Now I believe, as since these books were writen in a time of blunt politics and power, they are a great way to push your propaganda forward. Gays, can't exist because they are unable to have sex with women, as to which they won't make any baby's and thus no soldiers. If you don't fight with the crusades, you won't go to heaven. Men should hold power over women, because it is conveniënt. So they will be kept in low roles or even be excommunicated when you wish to become something more within the hiërarchy. No condom use as to the fact that won't produce children which means no soldiers...
Using my logic sense, I can only draw the conclusion that religion manipulates the weak minded. Comfort being the thirst and the bible being the poison. As to which purpose? Simple. Power.
Now the Quran or any other main religion stream are not that indifferent from these red lines. Praying on the weakminded, graving for power.
Thoughts?
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I also find comfort in religion, but at a point it gave me more grief than comfort.
Are you expecting an argument ?
Well it depends, if you agree upon it than I don't. But if theres something i've seem to have missed, I would to learn it.
love to learn it*
Yea I agree, there is comfort but it is more then that.
It's main principles push towards Guilt, It makes you feel unworthy with a lot of impossible things it demands from you.
One can take what is written in the bible in a 'good' way(apologetics) but what Jesus is asking is always an exaggerated demand.
(and this is done on purpose):
-Give everything to the poor
-Love everybody like yourself
-Love your enemy and share your home with him.
etc...
These are impossible things to follow and actually survive.
So instead of just telling you to follow Jesus to go to heaven, it asks you impossible tasks to follow the RIGHT path to go to heaven.
Then, knowing beforehand that you cannot follow those conditions, it offers you a last chance, "Believe in Jesus" without a doubt and you can ignore the conditions, since Jesus pays the price for you and you can go to heaven.
So Jesus offer is not a proposition or a claim anymore but it appears as a savior or in a very good light to you.
This is how propaganda works.
In politics a political party A does not say how good political party A is, but attacks political party B so political party A appears better.
EDIT:
In politics a political party A does not say how BETTER political party A is, but attacks political party B so political party A appears better.
So in a summary what your saying is that giving them inmpossible challenges, they diminish the followers confidence in which they create guilt because of the sacrifice Jesus made for humanity ( or it says so ). In which they maintain the followers loyalty out of fear of judgement.
It's true, and well done for managing to bare the church for so long!
.. I have had a similar experience. Not as full on as yours, and it wasn't for an experiment as such..
A family I had met for no more than a few hours, who took a shine to me when I was traveling, offered me a place to stay when I got to Australia. When I arrived they were true to their word and gave me a free place to stay in their own home, out of the goodness of their hearts. I didn't realize at the time they were strong Christians, so when they offered me to join them to church I felt obliged to, and so tagged along with them 3 or 4 Sundays.. Indeed, I was welcomed in with open arms (I of course was not exactly speaking my mind about how I was feeling at the time but still..) The love, happiness, kindness and comfort there was quite overwhelming (I do realize it would have been quite different if they knew I was a pretty solid Atheist.. but still!)
.. My point is, for someone completely unsure about religion, I can totally understand how easy it would be to be sucked in. Not from the religion itself, but the people you will meet who are involved.. But there's more to it than just comfort. Its a feeling of belonging and connection that people are naturally drawn to. With some delusional words, it leads people to believe they're experiencing a connection to God. But it of course isn't. It's a connection to the other people in the room, a transferring of energy between them all. The same feeling can be felt in the stands at a football match, or a raving nightclub dance-floor. It is this connection that is our true "God spirit," if you will, it gives us a sense of satisfaction like no other. And we naturally crave it, a fact that has been malevolently exploited by these fairy tale religions.
.. When I went to that church, I felt the love and energy in the room. The difference between me and everyone else there was, I understood what it was and where it was coming from. From the connection to each-other :)
You perfectly describe the potential people have to share a common goal, which is sadly in a unhealthy ( in society means ) environment.
Yes Danny I concur, it is the connection we feel and experience with each other.
It has been exploited by many religions in the past.
It is also a method used in rehab for rape victims too. A sens of unity and understanding.
To be more technical about it:
There are some hypothesis that talk about collective consciousness and how we are all connected in some way.
This is a concept that comes from paganism too,(Christianity adopted this when it was created).(gnosis, god is within you)
We are made up of 99.9999% of 'empty' space which has infinite energy.
According to the holographic universe hypothesis, everything is connected to the back hole in our galaxy, which means that we could be all connected to the same source.
This could be an explanation of what Denny is describing here:
"It is this connection that is our true "God spirit," if you will, it gives us a sense of satisfaction like no other"
This could happen when a group of people share the same goal or are in harmony.
Conciseness is still an unknown field, but something like this is not excluded either.
I would also add some very important aspects about Christianity that everybody should know:
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vatican/esp_vatican32.htm
Jeff - "According to the holographic universe hypothesis, everything is connected to the back hole in our galaxy"
oh man, no no no
a gross misapplication of the holographic principle, and for what it is worth, there are probably millions of black holes in our galaxy...
I knew you were gonna jump in, and since you know nothing about what I am talking about, I would not waste my time with you.
Whoever even thinks that this guys actually makes 1 single point with all his stupid claims, claim it for yourself and will consider to reply to you.
We call the theists out on their bs, and I will call you out on your new age bs.
Guys lets keep it nice. We can agree to disagree. There is room for debate. Thats the freedom granted by being an atheist.
Well Cristopher first off, im glad to hear that you got a happy marriage for over 35 years now. A happy marriage seems rare these days let alone one with a milestone like that.
I do wonder when you go to church, which clearly now is out of respect for your wife, did ever open yourself to it? Or was it simply out of respect for your wife. Which I find quite respectable in itself.
Well to be honest Christopher, that kind of sickens me, I'll explain in a bit..
.. Read the above posts for reasons why people believe in such nonsense. And yes, there is some emotional solace involved too, also a lot of people know they actually don't do anything to help there fellow man or society in general, and so by going to church they feel they're doing some good. There is of course the hope of a better life after this one too, never forgetting they're terrified of the consequences if they don't go (eternal torture!)
Belief in such madness is literally a pretty serious type of mental illness. So for you to "like when your mind gets blown" by going to church, you're actually getting kicks of other peoples serious diseases. It's not funny ya know. When I went to church, sure I was happy that people were happy, but the feeling I felt the most was a sad pity for these people.. As for FOX NEWS, I can't bring myself to watch any mainstream news, I hear people talking about things then set out researching any sources but the mainstream. I understand the bs being fed to people via religion and mainstream news is laughable, but the fact that billions of people listen and believe these things most certainly isn't. Remember that.. And be careful when watching such things, you might not be believing it, but it is sinking in to your mind, and will be altering your perspective and swaying your thoughts and opinions
Congratulations on 35 years of marriage by the way, something almost unheard of these days, good on ya'z! How you've managed to keep it going without talking about something which is obviously a big part of her life is quite incredible. Do you ever find yourself wanting to talk about it with her? Is she aware you're an Atheist?
I can and do agree with your personal story findings. I went though much the same ritual in my youth in an effort to decide what was the most correct. For me, the experience exposed a weakness within those attending. They didn't seem to actually know anything of the true substance of their beliefs, just knew how to parrot cherry picked verses and act according to direction. I've come to the conclusion that the three main God based religions; Christianity, Judaism and Islam, are all based on a faulty premise, the old testament. In this testament it is written that women should be subservient, slaves should mind their masters and know their place, the adulterous should be stoned to death as well as any man who lies with another man as with a woman and blasphemers should be killed when you meet them..all written in the bible as a testament of God. All three of these God based religions based on the old testament are therefore guilty of crimes against humanity. Christians are speaking out , currently, about how the attack in France was God's way of punishing those who blaspheme...they can not be offended by such actions because after all, it is written in the bible that this is the valid action to take, according to God's will.With this in mind, we can no longer think of those perpetrating such acts as extremists because they are not..they are simply religious and acting according to what is written in God's testament.Considering this, it becomes clear that these God based religions must be stopped, eradicated, prohibited , erased and replaced with sanity, reason , logic and humanity.
Well every religion with incriminating texts about gender, sexuality, or position on religion seems quite wrong to me. The world has been burning for age after age because of someone claiming that the inscriptions in the book are gods truth. The concept of someone believing isn't neccesarily a harmfull thing. But they way it has been practiced for over 20 centuries is.
When I was a kid, I was feeling comfort thanks to religion. But, my grief overcame that comfort, and caused me to slowly doubt religion. Now, thanks to that one true grief I experienced when I'm at my last years in Junior High, I threw away my faith and decided to be an atheist.
Indeed, religion does offer some illusory benefits, like purpose and surety. It can even claim to offer a few tangible benefits, like community and a sense of belonging. It offers much, but at a price, and that price is the very thing it claims to be attempting to "save". There is seemingly few deities that don't claim to "save" us, at the low price of the very thing they claim to be saving. It is an awful lot like giving away your television because you are afraid someone will steal it, preemptive and counterproductive, all self-fulfilling inevitability.
The Abrahamic monotheisms are special, they not only will cost you the very "soul" you are trying to save, but also will cost you EVERYTHING else. Their deity isn't simply satisfied with your worship and your soul, but requires you to live in abject servitude to it, as if it were a king or plantation owner. You will continue in the status quo, and even get to anticipate a reward that is always coming "soon", just so long as you tow the line or pick the cotton. Rebel or question the arrangement, and this MERCIFUL and LOVING master and king has a special torture chamber just for you, with an infinite punishment for your sheer audacity.
Is it really any wonder that some of us find the price it asks too high? That we might question it's motives? That we might stop to consider the wisdom in giving away the thing we are being asked to save?
Thanks for sharing your valuable experience. That's why we can't judge religious people why they stay on their religions. Getting out there is like getting out of a comfort zone.