Cognostic has taken a lot of time to help educate me lately about some of my thoughts and posts here. There are things I have read about over the years that in my mind, I labeled as “facts” based off what I had watched and read. The thread I started about Satan wearing pants was tongue in cheek, poking fun about the images we are given to assert a belief in them. That’s where my thoughts of “ why would the most evil being have to put on pants” came from. I have read and watched videos by people far more knowledgeable than myself, who have researched the question of Jesus’s appearance. I, like many, including my parents, always found it interesting that a man born in the Middle East would have been of fair complexion. Now Cog didn’t argue my point with that, he pointed out that while it was unlikely, that I cannot prove it isn’t so. He’s correct. After hours of applying his logic to other situations, I find it the same there. No one anywhere can prove or disprove any biblical character,or their appearance. We can use common sense, we can read and educate ourselves, and we can get advice from an extremely intelligent chimpanzee, but we can’t prove shit. With all that said, given the information I have, I stand by MY belief that there are no gods,devils,demons,ghosts, or witches. I believe we live and we die and we are only here because our parents had sex. I have always been turned off by religion, or anyone lecturing about it. My natural instinct was always that it was a bullshit story. So from here out I will try to refrain from saying things are “facts”, but there is so much about all religions that I hate. That’s a fact.
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PJ: "But there is so much about all religions that I hate. That’s a fact."
LOL - No comment.
Hey Cognostic, I have a question for you. In the Bible, when it speaks of people owning slaves, and is written in a way that looks favorable to owning slaves, I have often wondered about how people such as Martin Luther King and Jesse Jackson, both of religious backgrounds, and other minority preachers, never took offense to this. In other words, they are preaching the gospel when the gospel speaks of owning slaves, and these men were also and rightfully,pushing for equal rights. Seems like their Bible was in opposition to their equal rights belief. I don’t know if in the Bible slaves were of a particular race, but at the end of the day, a slave is a slave. See my issues with this?
Good Question - I have no idea. I can assume "Cherry Picking." I wonder how Black People in general can be religious and support the bible. It makes no sense to me. We can put women on that list as well. The best I can come up with is ignorance of the text and cherry picking.
With regards to the slavery issue, the most common defense I have heard is that "Slavery in the Bible was not the same as American slavery." I don't believe that for a second but that seems to be what is being taught to the religious.
Start a thread. There are plenty of people around here who are well versed in the verses.
I'd suggest that (by design and violence) it was the only game in town.
@PJ Re: "I don’t know if in the Bible slaves were of a particular race, but at the end of the day, a slave is a slave. See my issues with this?"
Oh, yeah. Just about willing to bet pretty much every regular atheist on this site sees the issues with that. To us it is like a blaring neon sign in the middle of a pitch black field on a moonless night. Sadly, though, many (probably most) theists are more often blind to such obvious little "quirks" in their beliefs. And - even more sadly - they will remain blind to them no matter how often or how clearly you point them out. To this day it still baffles me as to why people are not able to see such things for themselves. But then I have to stop and remind myself that I was actually one of those people for a considerable portion of my life. Even though I spent a majority of my life having doubts about the teachings of the bible and Christianity, it was still - nevertheless - deeply ingrained into my psyche that religion was a good and wonderful thing. And that left me feeling there was something wrong with ME for having the doubts I had, and there were many times I found myself "defending" God/Christianity, despite all my nagging doubts about it. To say the least, it had a tendency to cause a bit of chaos in the ol' brain basket from time to time. Fact is, it was only after joining the AR that I finally began to realize just how toxic religion truly is. However, once all my doubt and confusion started to clear, it got replaced briefly by a considerable amount of "anger". Granted, I did not realize it at that time. I am only able to see that in hindsight. And looking back I realize I had a bit of pent up resentment about having spent a majority of my life in such mental turmoil. What is worse is that there was nobody and nothing specifically in which to place the blame for it. Basically, I had no target at which to direct my anger. And that is where this site came in really handy. It gave me a place to vent and express myself and get feedback on my thoughts and feelings. Again, at the time I did not realize it, but make no mistake I was full of rage. Hell, just about got my ass kicked out of here a time or two as a result of that rage. Thankfully, we have some incredibly fantastic mods here with patience and understanding beyond measure.... *respectfully tipping hat to Cyber*... As a result, all that anger, confusion, frustration, and resentment have long since faded away, leaving me with a peace of mind and a clarity of thinking unlike anything I have ever felt before in my life. It is a fantastic feeling I wish everybody could have.
Anyway, enough of my rambling. Just thought I would share that with you real quick. Hope you don't mind. I'm gonna go back to bashing Cog for a bit now. He might think I am neglecting him if I don't... *chuckle*...
@PJ
Yeah, Cog is really good at spanking asses. He even smacked mine pretty hard in the very first thread I made when I joined. I was fairly naive myself about many things concerning atheism, but Cog's very first post to me got me to thinking more clearly. At first I just thought he was being an asshole.... until I realized he was right. (Oh, okay-okay! He IS an asshole, but that's beside the point.) Anyway, the bottom line is that Cog is pretty good at smacking asses. (Get it?... Bottom line... Asses... *snicker*...) That being said, I have only one word of advice for you. If you ever see Cog approaching you and he is wearing a pig's nose... RUN! (Long story. Just take my word for it.)
Oh yea, bring up the whole pig nose thing. That was a one time event. It will probably never happen again. Lately I have fantasies about electrical tape and Rat Spit.
@Cog Re: "Lately I have fantasies about electrical tape and Rat Spit."
No, no, no! You should know better than that! Shame on you! Electrical tape? What the hell are you thinking???... *shaking head in disbelief*... Everybody knows Rat Spit will just chew right through that shit. If you are going to keep him secure enough for any amount of time, you are going to have to use some hardened-steel cable. Dammit, man! I thought you were smarter than that!
Yea... Mouse sized hardened steel cable will keep him from exploding as well. Good idea. I am going to draw a whole new batch of pictures.
"Lately I have fantasies about electrical tape and Rat Spit."
Ya...who hasn't.
@ Pirate Jack
Cognostic: “With regards to the slavery issue, the most common defense I have heard is that "Slavery in the Bible was not the same as American slavery." I don't believe that for a second but that seems to be what is being taught to the religious.”
That is damned true. They are taught that "American Slavery" in the South was NOT the same as the "Hebrew Slavery" of the Bible. I have asked many about this fact. And that is the answer I always got. I have had some African-Americans who said that I offered a great point, and they would investigate it themselves. Perhaps I planted the seed of atheism. Don't know. Having also worked as a volunteer for the Durham Rescue Mission (facebook), perhaps the most abusive Christian organization I have ever encountered, I also attended several of their Evening Chapel Services held on Wednesdays and Sundays.
From the website: “By offering safe shelter, three meals a day, clean clothing, Biblical counseling, financial planning, vocational training, GED/education and employment assistance, we’ve helped mend the shattered lives of many homeless men since opening in 1974.”
However, they also neglect that in exchange for these services, the Durham Rescue Mission (DRM) also forces "slave labor" of its clients. Some of the clients I have spoken to also stated that the DRM only believes that being "saved" and "coming to Christ" is the only means by which they will actually help anyone who ends up homeless and only needs a temporary shelter in order to return to society with employment, and later finding a new home.
Just look at the Mission Statement of the DRM: “Our Mission is to meet through the power of Jesus Christ the needs of the whole person: spiritual, educational, emotional, physical, social, and vocational, so that those who are hurting may become fully functioning members of society.” And there is only one problem with this Mission Statement. All incoming clients are required to sign a paper that specifically states, "...the client is to acknowledge the Mission Statement of the DRM..." but NEVER states they have to believe in the Mission Statement. Some of the clients I spoke with were atheists and had to hide their atheism so they can have a place to stay.
The 40 hours a week of "slave labor" with no other compensation other than having a bunk bed and a very small locker and three meals a day, actually ends up being a whopping total of almost 80 to 90 hours of work a week. Supposedly, the clients have one day off a week; however, that one day is spent having to attend a "counseling session" (which is nothing more than receiving homework assignements meant to shove the Bible down their throats) and a "chaplain session" (which is nothing more than a session where a "chaplain" spends 60 to 90 minutes shoving more of the Bible down their throats and possibly giving more homework). Essentially, if you were to include the time spent having to attend the two sessions on the "day off," and usually at least 50 hours a week working in the Thrift Stores, time spent doing the large amounts of "Bible homework," having to attend at least 7 "chapel services" a week, and doing daily chores of cleaning the dorms, the clients actually do not get any time off to do what they wish to do.
Basically, in summation, the DRM abuses the fact that some persons end up on a downfall and using them as "slave labor" to actually make a profit. Although they are registered as a "non-profit" organization, the DRM regularly makes a hefty profit every month. The leftover "profit" is then listed as "community outreach programs" where they do have "parties" where free Easter baskets, backpacks and school supplies, etc., are given to the needy about six times a year. Any still remaining profits are then written off as "monetary compensation" to the administrative personnel. Any other "profits" are then put into bank accounts under the auspices of expanding their abusive organization in order to create more incoming money that does not truly go to help the ones who truly only need a "hand up" instead of a "hand out."
And most of the clients of the DRM are African-Americans who have been taught to NOT question the supposed altruism of Christianity.
In other words, another "Christian" organization that assumes the cloak of altruism, but instead rapes the needy in order to make a profit to pay the administrative personnel and provide them "bonuses" for their "good works."
I can speak from some authority because I actually went undercover into the DRM as a client, being paid by a local TV news station to get some inside information about accusation of the "evil" behind the DRM. There is even more I can tell about the DRM, but, maybe later. Perhaps I'll write a short book detailing the DRM.
rmfr
Sounds like the Scientology Model of personal growth and development.
@PJ
Arrrrrr matey.
I like the chimp...obviously. But disagree with his view of "we can't prove shit" ideology. We have reason and probability. P-value can measure to an almost certainty. In such, I personally feel that is enough to suffice a "God does not exist" from my hemispheres. I don't want him to go ape-shit, but, then again, I don't want him to groom me either...sooooo don't mention to him, I think he is bananas on this point.
doG: NO DISAGREEMENT AT ALL. I think you said the very same thing I said.
Believing what is reasonable to believe is not necessarily "proof." What can you believe to be absolutely true with 100% accuracy? Colloquially, "proof" is only "Justified True Belief." The level of our belief should be adjusted to the evidence available. "We have reason and probability. P-value can measure to an "ALMOST CERTAINTY."