My recent debate with a Theist/Christian

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hiwaystar's picture
My recent debate with a Theist/Christian

It all started a couple days ago, when a teacher casually asked us whether we believe in ghosts.

"No'', I replied, ''otherwise the atmosphere would've been filled with ghosts of dinosaurs, trilobites, ants and cats.''

''I believe only humans have souls.'' said another guy.

The guy--let's call him Sean--was a friend of mine. We've met for a few weeks and we both love music. However, I'm not a fan of the ''humans are special'' thinking, so I had to counter his statement.

Me: Why do you believe only humans have souls?

Sean: So you think there's no different between humans and animals?

Me: Well...there isn't, since all life on Earth are related.

Sean: But humans have special capabilities, like speech!

Me: There are many ways animals communicate with each other. Speech happens to be how humans do it.

(And then the teacher intervened.)

Teacher: So what are your religious beliefs? I'm Buddhist, by the way.

Me: Atheist.

Sean: Christian.

Teacher: Cool. See ya! (leaves the room)

(The teacher probably didn't want to get involved in a debate, I guess.)

Sean: So you don't believe in God, huh?

Me: Yeah.

Sean: Why?

Me: Because there's no evidence.

Sean: So you just don't believe anything that you can't see?

Me: Uh...yeah, but it depends on what you mean by ''seeing''.

Sean: How do you think the universe came to be?

Me: The Big Bang, of course.

Sean: But you can't see the Big Bang.

Me: Neither can I see bacteria or atoms, which are real things.

Sean: But the Big Bang took place way before humans existed! So how can you be sure that the Big Bang was real?

Me: By your logic, a policeman shouldn't investigate anything that took place prior his birth!

Sean: So how did the Big Bang happen in the first place?

Me: Scientists don't know yet. But they're working on it, trying to find out the answer. They don't make up explanations and pretend to know the answer, like how religion does.

Sean: But look at how complex life and the universe are! It couldn't just...happen! It needs a Creator.

Me: Who or what created the Creator?

Sean: The Creator exists beyond past and future. It doesn't need to be created.

Me: I'm afraid that's an unfalsifiable claim. Ever heard of ''Russell's teapot''? It goes like this: I can claim there's a teapot between the orbit of Earth and Mars, and if you can't disprove that, my claim would be correct. See anything wrong?

Sean: How can you compare God with a teapot?

Me:............Okay, here's another example--Carl Sagan had a famous ''dragon in my garage'' analogy. I say there's a dragon in my garage. 'Where is it?' you ask. I say it's invisible so you can't see it. 'How about we spread flour on the floor to capture it's footprints?' you say. 'it won't work,' I say, 'because the dragon floats in the air.' You say you'll spray-paint the dragon to make it visible. I say it won't work because the dragon is incorporeal. Now, Sean...what's the difference between an invisible, floating dragon and no dragon at all?

Sean: How can you compare God with a dragon? Do you seriously not tell the different?

Me:............Again, I was talking about unfalsifiability, not dragon superpowers! Urghhhh...okay, listen to this: when the concept of God was first invented, God lived in a cave. When people realized it doesn't, they say 'so God lives in the mountains'. Then they climbed the mountains and say 'so God lives in the skies'. Now we've conquered space and they say 'so God lives beyond space and time'. You see what I mean, right?

Sean: But life would be meaningless without an afterlife, don't you think?

Me:......Well, I don't care if there were an afterlife. I care about making my present life the best it can be.

Sean: Then how do you explain why some people feel confused and misguided in their lives, leading to self-doubt and suicide?

Me: What does that have to do with God? You gotta learn to take control of your own life. I had my times in the suicidal abyss too.

Sean: And what about miracles? Some cancer patients recovered just before the brink of death. People with broken legs sometimes recover miraculously, too. How do you explain that?

Me: Those instances don't happen everyday, but they certainly don't break the laws of physics.

Sean: Okay, class is about to start...I'll send you a link for you to read.

Me: Sure. I'll send you something too despite you being a hopeless case.

(Leaving awkwardly)

So, anyway...I got home and clicked on the link Sean sent me. It was an article from a religious website, and it was the stupidest thing I have ever seen in my entire life.

To sum up the article he gave me, well…I swear…it LITERALLY states that:

1. Atheism and Evolution are immoral and will lead to the demise of humanity.
2. Evidence for God is not required because God is undetectable.
3. You can't disprove God.
4. Flying saucers are real and they come from another dimension.
5. Some Japanese soldiers during WWII failed to demolish a temple. Miracle!
6. There are people around the world with super powers. Miracle!
7. The same side of the Moon always face the Earth. Miracle!
8. Earth is in the habitable zone of the Sun. Miracle!
9. The Sun undergoes nuclear fusion. Miracle!
10. Near-death experiences are evidence for an afterlife.
11. Paranormal events are evidence for ghosts.
12. Many scientists believed in God, including Einstein and Newton.
13. Atheism is the reason why Chinese people are rude.

(Here’s the link by the way: http://www.epochtimes.com/b5/17/7/19/n9430518.htm. I know it’s not in English, but you can use google translate. Trust me, it didn't change much.)

Cringing all the way through, I couldn't believe that any author could be this stupid. I send him several wikipedia pages about logical fallacies, and he replied:

''God has nothing to do with logic and rationality. It's about personal experience!''

That dispelled all my further thoughts to save him from his insanity. I've had decided to end the conversation by not replying.

I've seen creationists failing miserably at trying to use logic. But I've had never met someone who boldly claimed that ''logic ain't required''!

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curtisabass's picture
I don't believe Einstein was
hiwaystar's picture
Indeed! That article took a
Sheldon's picture
Well he followed a very
hiwaystar's picture
Indeed. Sadly he apparently
Sheldon's picture
Equally sadly I doubt you can
hiwaystar's picture
Totally agree. Occasionally a
LogicFTW's picture
Many theist amazing ability
hiwaystar's picture
Amusingly, some theists even
Sheldon's picture
That's a logical fallacy as
hiwaystar's picture
Just recalled something else
Cognostic's picture
@How do you think the
hiwaystar's picture
Thanks for pointing out! I'll
Sky Pilot's picture
Rushing or Dragging,
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Hmm...bet it'll be a tricky
Tin-Man's picture
Hey, Rushing! This may be
hiwaystar's picture
Hahaha I've had been thinking
Zevix's picture
The idea that people who go
hiwaystar's picture
Let me get this straight-
Sky Pilot's picture
Zevix,
Sky Pilot's picture
According to the fairy tale
Tin-Man's picture
@Dio
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Tin-Man,
Cognostic's picture
@Tin-Man: Unfortunately, you
Tin-Man's picture
@Cog Re: "@Tin-Man:
NewSkeptic's picture
I know people often say they
Titusfury's picture
Interesting debate. I had a
Sky Pilot's picture
Titus,
Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Titus
Titusfury's picture
As far as an agreed general
Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Titus

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