Hi,
Long time no see, yeap, I'm back. Okay, so, this time I'm touching a topic I've never touched before. I have NEVER read about dreams, why they happen or what's the connection between them and religion.
Some things I've been TOLD (I don't believe in them) before as a child from my parents:
1) Good dreams are from god
2) Bad dreams are from satan
3) When you see a bad dream, spit 3 times on your left (for some ultra gay reason I guess? I don't know, I don't do such crap, never did)
Now, things that I have HEARD either from passing articles or people:
4) We dream the most amount of times in REM stage
5) Dreams are a sign of hidden truth and future (e.g. you see a dream that green trees grow out from a concrete floor -------- this means that something amazing is going to happen to you such as solving a problem that seemed impossible or something crazy happening like ur poor and ur 1 million dollar lottery comes etc)
6) Dreams that are about things you are about to do should be taken seriously (e.g. you think of buying a red car, some days later just before buying the car you see a dream in which an accident has occurred to you in a red car)
------------------------------------------------
Okay, so I too see some crap dreams sometimes. Crap as in religious dreams. As an atheist, I don't like to see anything related to religion in my dreams because for fuck sake, I don't like anything related to religion.
So, recently I saw a dream that I'm sitting on a carpeted floor with my mom in front sitting on a sofa and a round glass table in between (I saw myself sitting in the lounge of my current house where I reside). I don't know but for some reason an argument is going on about existence of ALLAH and my mom is nearly crying because I'm not listening to her because she tries to prove that allah is true etc.
So, for some unknown another reason, next thing I do is I take a white glass of water and pour it on my left arm which is slightly slanted and as soon as the water drops on my arm, it goes down making everything wet till my elbow for some milliseconds. It's the front side of the arm where your wrist is located. Now as soon as the water drops on my arm, it instantly dries away. I do this a multiple of times and then I shout "what the fuck, but how is this possible? islam cannot be true, i researched everything about it, how the fuck is this happening?"
Ok, I know it's not a good idea to connect religion here but my mom says this is a sign for you to return to islam. I was like fuck no, just NO, stay the fuck away from me or I'll cut all ties of relationship with this family. I reacted this way because fuck my life was ruined by islam. But this experience seriously caused bad anxiety in me especially the sharing the dream with my mother.
1) Now I'm trying to think about the dream. What comes to your mind when I told you about the dream? In the dream, I assume that god is making the water disappear as a sign.
2) Can you give me an advice about any such dreams and how I should handle them and approach to them/ignore them? I know I should NEVER share my dream with my family again, that was fucked up experience.
Sometimes I see a dream in which some kinda god is speaking and saying all the other gods are wrong including allah, jesus and everything and I'm the only correct one and then some weird irrelevant stuff comes in dream and this is how usually my dreams finish.
So guys, do you ever experience such crappy dreams? How do you approach them? What is your first reaction? Do you get worried? Do you think these dreams can occur if one is too anxious about religion in general e.g. I often get scared by these dreams or other events in real life like my mom saying something and then I get scared that what if islam turned out to be true and etc so I get scared and probably this fear causes such dreams? What do you think?
There are even more extreme dreams in both islam and christianity that are experienced by people but are complete bullshit when listened to. Every religious man sees dreams of THEIR GOD in their dream. Christians see jesus, muslims see fucked up rapists and warlords (you know who I'm referring to) and probably name of their god on some shit like clouds and etc.
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There is only one rule for communicating your dreams to other people: DON'T!
It sounds like a load of nonsense, but I have genuinely found that trying not to think of negative things (at least, negative things that are pointless to think about) does put me in a better mental state both while awake and while sleeping (i.e. while dreaming).
I think it is certainly true that things you think about a lot appear frequently in your dreams in one way or another (I say that based on a section of the Seth Stephens-Davidowitz book Everybody Lies).
Yes, I was in a lot of anxiety in general before this dream and some other shits occurred.
Mama don't me not to come! lol
"So, recently I saw a dream that I'm sitting on a carpeted floor with my mom in front sitting on a sofa and a round glass table in between (I saw myself sitting in the lounge of my current house where I reside). I don't know but for some reason an argument is going on about existence of ALLAH and my mom is nearly crying because I'm not listening to her because she tries to prove that allah is true etc."
This is a great dream. You are sitting on a carpeted floor (comfortable - you notice the carpet)
Your mother is sitting on the Sofa. You see her as being higher than you. She is more powerful or more important. You put your mother higher than yourself in some way. (She is on the sofa and higher than you.) There is a round glass table in front of you. (Glass is fragile and it breaks. It is also the shape of the world. The glass is separating you from your mother. You are comfortable and you know that the boundary between you is like the glass table.. She is on one side and you are on the other. She is crying but you are comfortable where you are at.
The water is simply your fear, Your mother is in the position of power. You listen to her. Her words have the effect of making you listen and question your current situation. You want her to stop crying. You want everything to be okay. Her tears flow and you pour the water on your arm. Your arm changes... but as soon as it changes, you see it again and the water is dry and nothing has changed. WTF How is is possible.
It is your brain wrestling between the world of Gods and magic, and the world of facts and perception. With the pouring of water, your brain is flip flopping between worlds. It's wet, its dry, it's wet, its dry.
Oh my goodness. I swear if you had actually interpreted my dream like that, I'd have probably believed you 100% word by word as to what indicates what in the dream. You are really good at this :D
@Seek3R
Actually, this is a respectable interpretation of your dream.
A dream can be a mish-mash of what you have been thinking about, consciously or sub-consciously. Your brain took those items .. your mother, religion, and made a weird movie out of it.
Dreams are not real, they are just the brain processing stuff in your head while you are asleep.
One of my areas of study. Basic Assumption (Dreams are often the brains way of releasing the stress we are feeling during our day. They are symbolic representations of stress. Stress is not always negative not all dreams are clear. Yours seemed pretty basic to me. No mysticism no magical interpretation. Just your brain experiencing stress.
@Cog Re: Dream Interpretations
Yeah, my wife is really good at deciphering dreams. We often enjoy discussions about them around the breakfast table whenever one of us has a particularly interesting dream. Fun stuff.
@Cog
Outstanding interpretation!... *big thumbs up*....
If god is just, you have nothing to worry about. If god is not just, you cannot trust it to act logically, no matter what you do. Better to follow truth as you see it rather than worry about how some god may or may not think.
@Cognostic: "It is your brain wrestling between the world of Gods and magic, and the world of facts and perception. With the pouring of water, your brain is flip flopping between worlds. It's wet, its dry, it's wet, its dry."
Right. These sentences clicked something in my mind. I've been seeing contradictory dreams in the past few days.
Dream #1: Some people tell me I'm followed by 2 guys with horns. I'm like wtf in the dream, are you okay? (I'm an atheist in the dream). I remember myself being in a mall, exploring around and again someone notices these two people. Now, here, there's my brain messed up. When I turn around, I don't see anyone until two white clothed people appear. This dream can be perfectly invalidated because the way I see these people is 100% similar to what I saw in a horror movie some days ago. These people are meant to be supposed angels. Then, I see someone telling me that I'll die in 3 months and then I say show me and then he shows blabla and I see my soul leave my body. But this is fucked up too because I was supposed to be talking to this angel on a road and when I die, the scene is instantly changed to my body in mid air falling to the ground until BANG and blood everywhere.
Thing is, I don't believe in souls so yeah those shits were going around in my mind before this crap dream occurred.
However, the dream invalidates itself by showing me horror movie characters as angels and the way they appear is 100% recognizable and familiar because I see too many horror movies. The last "angel" who tells me I'm gonna die in 3 months and then shows me is not clearly visible. But he seems like a clean shaved person whom I've already seen in a movie somewhere. He looked like an American lol.
So, according to this dream, I'm seeing supposed angels appear in front of me in ways that horror movies use to create jump-scares. Instantly appearing, disappearing, appearing, blurred looks and when close up the face looks fucked up shit. Sometimes, suddenly someone running from one place to another and then disappearing (this exact scene I saw in a youtube prank video)
SO,THIS DREAM = ANGELS ARE UGLY SHIT LOOKING PEOPLE
Dream #2: The one which I wrote in this topic, sitting on the carpeted floor etc
I think you are right again here Cognostic. And I think that god has gone nuts, drying my arm. I poured water on my arm while expecting that someone will dry it but hoping nobody will. Hope and expectation collided and since sometimes I do fear that islam shit is true, such crappy dream comes.
YES, I think I got it. I poured water on it probably because I was expecting someone to dry it but hoping at the same time that it would not happen. It's just scary shit if it actually happens in real life but it won't because god is too fucked up to actually show some of his shit. But anyways, non-existent beings cannot do or reveal anything.
SO THIS DREAM = FEARED EXPECTATION AND OPPOSITE HOPES COLLIDE
Dream #3 There's this supposed god talking to me whom I can't see. I can just hear the voice from the sky. I'm again like what the fuck in the dream. I ask the god, are you allah? He says no. I then ask him are you jesus? He says no. Then I say are you a hindu god? He says no. He then says I am this (shows a picture). What he shows me is a picture of a horse's face.
SO THIS DREAM = ALL GODS ARE FALSE, ONLY THE HORSE FACE I SAW WAS THE GOD. AMAZING!
I think I should stop seeing horror movies and calm myself.
Sorry only one interpretation per thread. Look, sit quietly with yourself. Review your dream and review the stress you are currently having in your life. If you think of some stress, just ask yourself if the dream is about that. If not, dismiss it and look again. Think about the characters. the locations, who the people are and more importantly how each situation. person. or event makes you feel. You should be able to do this on your own with any disturbing dream with just a little practice and insight. Your brain is just telling you about you,.
I think I should stop seeing horror movies and calm myself.
there's an idea.....
Okay but guys what do you have to say about religious dreams in which some prophet is seen, jesus is talking or etc?
What will you do if jesus comes in your dream or muhammad asks you to convert to islam in your dream?
What explains this?
I cannot say directly what explain that, but I can say that I cannot recall ever having a dream about Muhammad...certainly not a vivid dream...and I suspect that there are also generations of people in the Amazonian rainforest who have also never had dreams about Muhammad. Do you really think that Allah, the supposed creator of mankind, would be so selective in the way it dispenses dreams?
I just told you what explains it. Jesus is only important if it is important to you. Watch Passion of the Christ before you go to sleep at night, tell yourself you are going to remember your dreams in the morning. and I am betting you that your dream will be about torture and possibly have religious overtones. Possibly not because the torture theme or religious theme wold likely be about some sort of stress you are having in your life. Think of dreams as metaphors for emotions. There is no symbolic meaning that transcends individuals. There is just your issues and your meanings.
1. No
2. No
3. No
4. Yes
5. No
6. No
Dreams should not be interpreted or taken seriously unless you suffer from night terrors. Dreams are fragments of thought, you do not remember 90+ % of them anyways, and are usually emotional based. About the only insight they may offer a glimpse of your overall emotional state if you are not good at figuring out your more accurate emotional state while awake.
LogicFTW: Dreams should not be interpreted or taken seriously unless you suffer from night terrors.
I am assuming when you say "night terrors" you mean the same thing as "nightmares"? For me, there is a terrifyingly huge difference between a Nightmare and a Night Terror.
For me, a Night Terror is basically the same as a Nightmare. However, the huge difference is that a Night Terror CANNOT be woken from. It just keeps repeating endlessly, no matter how much lucidity you use to try and control it. Even getting yourself killed in the Night Terror. Literally, nothing can bring you out of that state. Nothing can wake you up.
Eventually, the mind can only handle so much and it finally gives up, thus the dreamer, who is actually suffering from a PTSD dissociative schizophrenic delusion, does wake up. Sort of. Believe me. I have suffered enough of these to realize there is a terrifyingly huge difference between a Nightmare and Night Terror. Basically, you just keep suffering in the same nightmare over and over and over and over until the mind literally breaks and you do wake up. But the waking up ain't that much better.
It is the Night Terrors that have terrorized me so badly in the past that I have realized that I suffer from the Complex version of PTSD. And I have been known to awake from these horrible terrors with several joints completely wrenched. Remember, the mind does control the body.
Additionally, the myth about dying in a dream means dying in your sleep is just that... a myth. I have died several times in my many Night Terrors, and I am still alive.
Fortunately, I have not suffered one of those Night Terrors in about five years. However, I can never truly say I shall never suffer another one. I just hope I never do. As said, these are the only things that truly terrify me.
I'm ranting. I quit.
rmfr
EDIT: Repaired many typos and omitted words.
I will fully admit I only had (until I read your reply and others) a vague understanding of night terrors. But I was considering basically: nightmare that repeat, that you can not control normally, and have real effect in your life, like making people fearful to even go to sleep.
My understanding is, most everyone has nightmares, but a few people have debilitating night terrors that carries a heavy emotional toll as well as physical ramifications like lack of restful sleep.
But really exactly the point I was trying to make. Trying to disseminate dreams is mostly a useless exercise, including nightmares, they should be mostly ignored, But when if nightmares steps up to night terrors, help is needed, and night terrors should NOT be ignored.
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I was wondering. Most people do not know the difference. Psychologists call my definitions of "night terrors" something different, something scientific. I just like night terror because it does sound like something horrible instead of a "What is that?" reaction to the scientific term. I think in the last 10 years I have only suffered twice with a night terror. And have not had one in about 5 years.
However, nightmares still haunt me. Probably shall until I die. Nightmares I'll probably never get rid of. The Night Terrors, my fingers are crossed. Recurring nightmares also should not be ignored. But I can deal with them better than I can the Night Terrors. Those still scare me. The only things that scare me.
I do know one thing. The recurring nightmares I have cannot be cured nor can anything be done. As long as I am alive and thinking, those nightmares are still going to recur. The deaths of my family is something that cannot be forgotten. Since it cannot be forgotten, I shall forever have those nightmares. It was a problem when they became Night Terrors and bullied me into a psychotic stupor, formerly known as a dissociative schizophrenic delusion. I guess I have gotten old enough and knowledgeable enough to now withstand that bully. Good riddance.
Seek3r,
Just know that any dream has a hidden message. However, if you are like me and practice lucidity (knowing you are dreaming and taking control of that dream). I tend to use lucidity to control my nightmares even. However, that is very difficult to do since I KNOW the incident that killed my family happened and nothing can change that. Thus, in that case lucidity won't work. I do remember some of the good dreams, but it is the bad ones that are remembered more often. And that sucks.
Hang in there buddy. As you grow, those dreams will fade away as you gain more knowledge. Just remember this quote I said to my nephew:
“There is no shame in being self-taught, searching for knowledge for yourself. The only shame is in not seeking learning and knowledge in the first place.” — RMF Runyan
rmfr
@ arakish
I generally agree with your views. Especially with regards to PTSD. severe trauma or being a witness to trauma or mind altering events. Night Terrors are not the same as nightmares. People suffering from night terrors may suffer the same dream for years and even go as far as trying not to sleep; Lack of sleep brings on the night terror and the cycle continues. Sleeping pills. alcohol, and other drugs can also result in symptoms like night terrors. These drugs can actually prolong the symptoms and yet they are prescribed by doctors or used via self medication by people suffering from night terrors. These drugs interfere with REM sleep and can result in a Rubber Band effect that actually creates more severe night terrors. You may end up with a person who has a fear of sleep or dreaming and that fear alone can create night terrors.
REGARDLESS: The content of the dream. its meaning and symbolism, is always connected to the dreamer, the dreamer's life experience. and the dreamers own interpretive meaning. Dreaming is a brain state and your brain is a huge part of who you are and how you make sense out of the world. Dreams do not happen to you. They are created by you.
"Dreams do not happen to you. They are created by you." That's fascinating and new to me.
4 questions please answer, I'm sorry for asking so much but it really helps me in a way beyond imagination! :
1) "You" is referring to the brain right which is going to create dreams without asking us. If a person is going through shit in life, he will see shit in dream too and no matter how much that person tries to pretend to be happy, the brain will reveal his actual emotional state. Right?
2) This means that if I fear that christianity is true, I will see mixed dreams of christianity being false and true (as you did mention wrestles between facts and myths)?
3) And same, if I fear that islam is true, I will see mixed dreams of islam being false and true right? Mixed dreams because I 100% know islam is false but then since I'm a new atheist, fears often affect my emotional state, making me anxious about certain questions which I feel like clearing again to myself and that fixes it sometimes. Please confirm?
4) So dreams, in conclusion, as LogicFTW said, represents our emotional state on the basis of our life experiences, thoughts, feelings, fears and NOT GOD OR SOME FUCKED UP SUPERNATURAL CRAP etc, right?
@Seek3r
Not sure if you wanted any answers from me, but here goes:
1. Dreams are still highly fragmented and most dreams are forgotten. I do think there is a correlation of dreams and waking state, if you are greatly worried about something in life, it is much more likely a dream may be in a sort of disjointed realization of that fear (in a dream state.)
2. Yes dream states can reflect thoughts you have while awake, at times, or they can be completely random, or just slightly influenced, hence the, it is not a good idea to try and figure out what dreams mean, they can be so random.
3. Yes the same with islam, the same with any religious idea you have heard and thought about, think about the flying spaghetti monster enough while awake and your odds of having a dream about it at one point goes up.
4.Certainly do not represent god or supernatural crap. They can represent our experiences, thoughts and feelings, or it could be just random, a mishmash of what you did that day, what you watched on TV 2 days ago, and the billboard you did not even consciously notice on the drive home. Or completely random. I notice I have a fair amount of dreams about my childhood home even though I have not lived there in over 20 years.
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▮ I am an atheist that always likes a good debate. ▮
▮ Please include @LogicFTW in responses directed to me. ▮
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@ Cognostic
I have to completely agree. Some drugs, especially alcohol, suppress REM. Deprive yourself of enough REM for enough years, and you will go psychotic. That is one reason I do not drink very often. I much prefer the effects of THC, marijuana, to any other drug. THC does not suppress REM. In me, the THC relaxes my mind. Quiets it down. Even blocks the unwanted intrusive thoughts that are always banging around inside. And it is because of the unwanted intrusive thoughts that I hate not being high at least once a day. Any less than that and those intrusive thoughts and nightmares just keep haunting me.
I think the biggest positive effect I have had on me own mental health is realizing I do suffer from PTSD and have researched it enough to knowledgeable enough to know what it is I am facing. As I am always saying, "Forewarned is forearmed." But even that is not enough. The past two months, I have had a horrible time trying to sleep. Nightmares keep waking me up. Nerve pain keeps waking me up. Leg and feet jerking wakes me up (Restless Leg Syndrome). I know I have some kind of severe nerve disorder, just do not know what kind. I know my back has been "broken" five times in the same region: L3-L4-L5-S1. That has a lot to do with it. However, the problems have gotten severely worse in just the last eight to ten months.
I feel that the strongest persons are those who actually do admit that they have a mental disorder and seek help. Seek knowledge. Seek learning. And I quote I made up for me nephew:
“There is no shame in being self-taught, searching for knowledge for yourself. The only shame is in not seeking learning and knowledge in the first place.” — RMF Runyan
And the biggest thing I despise about dreams is that the good ones I have are almost never remembered. Only those damnable nightmares and night terrors get remember. And that the sorriest shit?
rmfr
I notice I have far less dreams if I take marijuana and still under the effect when I go to sleep. And the opposite for alcohol (gives me a higher chance for bad dreams.)
Probably the best part of marijuana is the sleep aid it provides. Fortunately for me I usually do not have much trouble sleeping to begin with.
I go get to remember my sexual dreams, and they are almost universally good dreams, if sometimes a bit strange :)
I also have gotten rather adept at realizing a dream is a dream, and if it is a bad one, I can just repeat to myself "this is a dream" until I wake up. (Usually only 3-4 times b4 I wake up.)
I like your quote :)
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▮ I am an atheist that always likes a good debate. ▮
▮ Please include @LogicFTW in responses directed to me. ▮
▮ Useful list on forum usage. A.R. Member since 2016. ▮
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Having problems is easy, anyone can do it. How you make sense of them and deal with them is everything. I praise you for your effort, strength and ability to move forward, understand, and be prepared.
1. Yes and NO. Your brain never asks you before it has a thought. Your brain has a million thoughts a day that you do not pay attention to. It is always active. Awake and dreaming. Catch it talking sometime and stop it, ask yourself why did I just have that thought. (This is what is most remarkable about humans, self observation.) Do an action without thinking, realize you did it mindlessly, and then do it again consciously. Much of all we do is unconscious in a way. All you are doing when you look at a dream is making the unconscious (I hate that word) conscious.
No - You will not see shit in your dreams if you are going through shit in your life. How you are dealing with the shit is everything. What does the shit you are going through mean to you., One persons shit is another person's gold. I worked in emergency rooms and ambulances for about 7 years. I have had people die in my arms and I have given mouth to mouth to a 7 year old boy whose mouth was filled with vomit. I have been covered in blood and I have scraped up and bagged body parts off the streets. I have NEVER had a bad dream and never had a bad dream about my work at that time. Never. It's contingent on you, your personality and your interpretation of the world and events around you. It's YOU, not the events. I was in a helping role and felt good about the things I did. They were not emotionally stressful. I also accept death and dying as part of the natural process of life. I worked geriatrics prior to the ambulance and saw hundreds of people die. (No bad dreams by the way)
2) This means that if I fear that Christianity is true,
NO - it does not mean anything. It means that if you have a dream you look at it and ask yourself, have I been worrying about this. You are putting the cart before the horse. People lie to themselves all the time about what is important or what is bothering them. You do not predict dreams unless you start learning about lucid dreaming and even then you may get the place and some of the people but not necessarily the events. There is no one to one correlation. During the day you ignore the free associations of your brain but during the night, your brain is free to roam and if you are conscious enough, you are there just watching it. Most dreams are like our daily thoughts and we just don't remember them, Dreams are just thoughts and ideas and they are often related to emotional states.
3) And same, if I fear that Islam is true, I will see mixed dreams of Islam being false and true right? NO. Think about the question. Every person who fears Islam will be true will have dreams of Islam. NO. You may have a dream about catching a fish on a river. At first you think it is a fish but as it gets closer it is a crocodile. You are trying to cut the string on your pole but the crocodile is trying to pull you in the water. It has nothing to do with Islam.. But if you sit and think about the struggles you are having in your life you may see the crocodile as Islam trying to pull you back. The THEME is important, not the context of the dream The emotions are important not the subject.
Look at it this way. Islam is one thing that is important in your life. So when you dream it is a common theme. When I was training martial arts I would step up my training prior to a tournament. I would be worn out as I tried to reach peak performance. And during those times I would have dreams about fighting. But the dreams were not necessarily about fighting. Fighting was the symbol. Suppose I dreamed that I lost the fight and the referee was yelling at me to get out of the ring. Well the dream may have been about wanting to win and avoiding embarrassment. But the dream could also be about work. Obviously I am training every day and I am feeling guilty because I am slacking off a bit at work. I may have just a little fear that my boss is going to notice and be angry at me. Still, I know it will only be a short time and so I let the work slide so I can train. The dream is about Work and being fired and not about fighting even though Fighting is the theme.
You are trying to make a one to one correlation with the dream and the meaning. No such correlation exists. It is about YOUR MEANING> Your dream was easy to see. You are in an atheist forum. You are having issues with family,. It was a no brainer.
4. FTW said, represents our emotional state on the basis of our life experiences, thoughts, feelings, fears and NOT GOD OR SOME FUCKED UP SUPERNATURAL CRAP etc, right?
I thought FTW eloquently summarized everything I had said. SPOT ON.