To paraphrase Hitchens and the over all atheistic view on morality rather a subset of it:
Human morality and solidarity is innate in us.. we do not need religion and some outdated prehistoric man made rules to tell us right from wrong. Everything works without the need to posit a supernatural deity to it.
No more assumptions should be made than necessary. Since there is no reason nor evidence to suggest a supernatural entity let alone realm exists, it is futile to attempt to argue morality is needed outside of a place not known.
My response:
Yes human beings have a moral sense that developed evolutionarily. I fully agree that this was of practical use to primitive human societies. There are many varied ethical systems. Yes, yes, all well and good.
And if that were all of my experience, I would have no need for Christianity either or any God.
But I find that when I read from the Bible, when spend time praying, and when I meditate on the truths that Christians have believed for centuries that I am my best self. I spend more time with the sick. I volunteer myself more. I find myself more interested in others and how I can help them in their lives. I am more self-reflective. I am slower to anger and kinder. And I find I understand my inner workings much better.
So I cannot, from my experience, say that everything works without a supernatural deity.
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Although this seems to delve off somewhat into "meaning one gets in life" but I shall stick with morality.. Everything you said, the things you do is basically SUBJECTIVE in nature. You just assert the good things you do is from your belief in God.This is what we have agreed on the innate morality and human solidarity that is essentially innate in us, we just have to develop them more as civil society advances (read below). But before that:
Check out this small yet descriptive video of Humanism...
Look at this video by: Stephen Fry - "How can I be happy?" Narrated by Stephen Fry - That's Humanism!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tvz0mmF6NW4
Instead of relying on innate feelings or belief, I can spend more time thinking and evaluating my feelings and the feelings of others around me and to try to establish the consequences of my actions (ethics). One could construct an ethical system that remains flexible, based on human nature and science, all without owning a single moral belief. One does not need to use belief statements to do this.
Instead one need only use desire statements. For example, I want people to live together peacefully because everyone will feel better as a result. And then I might describe a way to achieve this want by using a theory to establish it. At no time do I require beliefs to establish statements about morality.
We as a society collectively determine our morals based on the values held by the people who make up our ranks. That is why we today understand that slavery and marital rape are immoral, despite the fact that Christian morality says that both of those are okay. It is our innate solidarity, and not some security camera in the the sky, which is the source of our morality and our sense of decency.
Done.
Sarahh, you have an unfortunately afflicted and over-worked imagination that has fallen prey to the written imaginings of others whose sole purpose for their redaction was not to provide you the comfort you claim to obtain from its readings without a cost to you.
If you need a source for morality, or a sense of such noble structure, look to yourself for it. Those who seek to control you know your psyche is most easily accessed through the power of suggestion and subliminal persuasion. Mind games. The bible is a mind-game document that has no historicity to validate itself. Unfortunately, when facts cannot support it many people dismiss the facts because the story is just too intrinsically addicting, persuading and powerfully hopeful. We all want to know we're needed and provided for in an eternal fashion.
But, the simple fact is there is no record outside of the bible's claims supporting any of its content from people to places to events.
But, that's a whole other study people with big imaginations and a penchant for denial will never undertake so we're back to your morality and you.
Man, innate with a natural sense of morality, was victimized by his own kind for the purpose of control over him. He was told his sense of good from bad was not natural and, indeed, was (is) "gifted" to him by the grace of a deity. Furthermore, if he questioned this revelation he would suffer in an afterlife, which he had no idea he had. Yeppers, not only was he told he'd suffer in that afterlife but, if he worshiped (the god du jour) he would survive in eternity a serenity of indescribable joy. Heck, before these cats came around spouting deity-speak he had no idea he had an afterlife. Well, gee-whiz, that's an easy choice and for the paltry offerings this deity (belief system) requested of him so what was there to lose?
*cough*
So, man had his morality pirated from him and sold back to him for a price (offerings) by the purveyors of deities and demons.
@Sarahh Ride
Your statement is a testimony about you, about how YOU need superstition. The fact that you lack critical thinking is all about you, not reality. Morality comes from society, not a god or a religion. You say in so many words that you need the bible to have charity, to have morality, to volunteer. Are you saying that other cultures that don't need nor use the bible don't practice charity and morality?
I have been all over the world, seen many many different cultures. All have a basic moral code. The most moral ethical people I know are atheists. The most immoral unethical people I know are christian.
Morality isn't based on religion, even though religion has tried to hijack morality!
FYI the prisons are filled with christians. The highest 5, the largest demographic in all prisons in the USA are all conservative christians.
So YOU need a silly outdated superstition to keep YOU in line. That is telling about YOUR weak moral code. I need no superstition. I live my life with high ethics and morality.
I think all gods are products of human imagination. So is everything written in the Bible. I have removed god from the equation. I can therefore pick from the bible any moral lesson that inspires me without accepting the god myth attached to it. Much of the bible is heinous but the Good Samaritan is a nice tale. The Crucifixion story is hideous but the deacons and deaconesses visiting the sick at home is nice.
"But I find that when I read from the Bible, when spend time praying, and when I meditate on the truths that Christians have believed for centuries that I am my best self."
Self-righteous twaddle. Go and polish your halo somewhere else.
Sarahh ride:
What seems to work for you is your BELIEF in a father-figure god. Whether the belief is true or false, you (as a particular individual) get the benefit of feeling good! (False beliefs, however, usually come with costs.) Therefore, your benefits are not evidence that a higher power is actually at work. Your account only proves that being engaged in some belief or line of thought can be beneficial. No atheist would find fault with that!
If you were a Buddhist, you would no doubt get the same benefits from certain types of meditation. I find myself at a higher level when I'm studying math.