Discussions with Theists have gone on and on and on and on. Biblical, historical scientific debates about God have occupied thousands of words and pages of different topics in this forum. To make it simple I will list just 3 things about miracles(among the hundred) and 3 things about morality(among the hundreds) that should make all the discussion redundant and a waste of time. I know these examples are obvious and have been mentioned many times before. But I expect everyone to seriously ponder just a few reasons the existence of God is impossible and immoral.
Miracles
1. Adam and Eve and the talking snake
2. Noah's Arc
3. Jesus born from a Virgin Mary)
Morality
1. The "angel of death killing all first born Egyptians including babies when Moses(who got the 10 commandments from a burning bush(God).
2. The murdering of anyone who leaves the faith(Islam) or all infidels who do not except Islam. Beheadings and stoning is a excepted way of murder.
3. Noah's arc(mentioned in Miracles) The "murdering" everyone in the whole world and all the animals( except 2 of each kind) including baby dinosaurs.
I know these lists of miracles and morality are just a few fraction of the "impossible" and immorality of God. But just to make it simple -think about the "lists" just for few a minute. Only someone who is an idiot or lacks empathy can be a theist. But then again "they" had to know everything on the list and still remain their faith. Please pardon my naivety and disregard this post. What is obvious to anyone with half a brain is rejected by morons and imbeciles. Sorry to waste your time.
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Yes, religion tries to say they "stand for peace and tranquility" but in reality, their stories are very immoral.
Despite the smug adherences of Christians, morality in way derives from scripture. Morality arises societally and speaks of ones time, place and environment. To believe that it comes to us through the writings of sand strewn scribes, dwelling in caves, during the iron age is a circular logic. The authors of the work (nor their god) knew anything of biology, cosmology, chemistry or physics and this is reflected in their scripture. The directives and prescriptions for behave outlined in the bible are based on the moral structure of the era and politic propaganda of it's wordsmiths. Their views on slavery, homosexuality, rape, and human rights are proof that our morality evolves as our species matures and understands the world around us.
morality from Christianity is the only thing that will save this decadent generation you say that it evolved what you left out for the better or for worst you tell me is this d teething in a moral collapse just look to what we evolved to,abortion planned parenthood selling fetal parts for sciencbible ande and profit alchol and drug abuse yes we had to one big cess pool of debauchy you advocate that we smug Christians adherence to the teachins of jesus and paul are outdated well you tell me when murder stealing false witness are in any time period are wrong to avoid.no we have really deteriorated morally and only the Christian bible with its doctrine will save humanity.
agnostic enlightener,
You just created a strawman. They are always easy to attack! Who said that every teaching of Jesus and Paul are outdated? Not me! Christianity plunged a large portion of the world into slaughter and torture over disputed doctrines. It's all there, all that debauchery and darkness, in the history books. This idea that Christianity is the only means to save the world is pure bull. Any moral codes of note in Christianity have been recycled since the dawn of human wisdom.
morality from Christianity is the only thing that will save this decadent generation you say that it evolved what you left out for the better or for worst you tell me is this d teething in a moral collapse just look to what we evolved to,abortion planned parenthood selling fetal parts for sciencbible ande and profit alchol and drug abuse yes we had to one big cess pool of debauchy you advocate that we smug Christians adherence to the teachins of jesus and paul are outdated well you tell me when murder stealing false witness are in any time period are wrong to avoid.no we have really deteriorated morally and only the Christian bible with its doctrine will save humanity.
I can totally understand your point. I will assume you were born into a Christian lifestyle or had an event that changed you and made you become a Christian. I would like for you to put your defensive guard down for a second and think critically with me. First I want to make sure we are clear on the bible and Jesus. Then we will delve into your morality issue.
Now I assume by bible (the one that will save humanity) you are referring to the cobbled-together anthologies of disjointed documents rewritten, revised and "inproved" for 900 years by anonymous authors unknown to us and for the most part eachother? Is that correct?
OK now let me see if we are talking about the same Jesus. God makes earth. He throws a dude on it. The dude gets lonely. God rips out the man's rib and POOF, turns it into a woman. Later on the woman gets talking with this snake. The snake makes her eat fruit and BOOM! We have sin. Skip ahead a few thousand years (I will refer back to those years). God comes down rapes a virgin, impregnating her with himself. Skip ahead 30 some years. (Also will reflect back on that time later) God then sacrifices himself to himself for the people he created himself who comitted sins he created himself. Stop me if I'm wrong.
Today, we know through history and anthropology that all the events document in the Bible during the 30 years between the virgin birth and crucifixion were borrowed or plagiarized from other myths in the area surrounding the Mediterranean. These include: the virgin birth, the baptism, the 12 disciples, the star in the east, the 3 kings, walking on water, curing the blind, rising the dead, the crucifixion and the resurrection just to name a few. All predate Jesus and all plagiarized. So I assert that this is the Jesus you are referring to?
In the time between the talking snake and the Immaculate Conception God committed genocide infanticide and rape. He comanded the stoning of children, the raping of innocent girls, human sacrifice, slavery, torture of homosexuals and the oppression of female rights. These acts were justified and carried out in the name of god for centuries. We now live in a time and world (despite the smug adherences of Christians) that these atrocities are unacceptable because we have evolved morally. Today we see the church sitting untaxed at the tune of 71 billion a year, while we can't find the funds for research to cure cancer. The Catholic church protects pedophiles and moves them into new parishes. Rape and incest victims are shunned and mistreated for terminating blastocyst.(which is the death of about 10% of the cells killed by itching your nose) Christianity influenced the Bush administration to promote prayer and celibacy in Africa and cut out all funding to birth control and condoms that America once provided. Now countless men, women and children are suffering and dying of HIV as you type your punctuationless rebuttal.
So yes! we do live in a morally greater world.
And no I do not condone the action of one doctor in an isolated incident at a particular Planned Parenthood. Nor, do I let it sway my judgement on my understanding of biology and child development or my view of morality.
god did not commit sin himself he just because of our free will that we are blessed with allows it to take place, as for Adam our first parent he is not a dude and god does not rape mary.as for the catholic church protecting pedophiles and moving them to other parishes many have been let go or just left or been handled by the criminal justice system. And tell me where did the women and children get aids from by immoral life styles they were downright loose with themselves, prostituting themselves. And it is not only one doctor as the present investigation will reveal that it took a lot of people to have a hand in this. Jesus was not a myth as the writing of josephs indicate he was the god man and his life is fully documented by Matthew and the apostle john Luke was a physician who new the disciples mark was peters cousin all first hand accounts of an amazing life of Jesus Christ. Tell me lost atheist what do you have in life nothing but immoral desires and total misunderstandings of the church and the faith that it espouses to.
skeptical christian - "god did not commit sin"
Have you forgotten your bible already? Thou shall not kill...
agnostic enlightener,
Where did you get this idea that God never committed sin? Did God tell you that or have you set yourself up to judge God?
To probe the wonder of the stars and galaxies in an expanding universe, to glimpse the workings of the fantastic molecular machinery evolution has created in plants and animals, to understand and trace the evolutionary process itself in all its fabulous diversity, to follow some of the beauty and logic of mathematics and make it your own, to walk the wild path and see the beauty of tiny flowers, to be warmed by true friends, to be enriched by wise authors old and new, to appreciate (though not fully feel) the great depth of time in the rocks and the ages they speak of, to walk with philosophers exploring the limits of human thought, these are some of the things I do with my life. No, I am not lost. I know where I am going.
As for Bible and church, I know them all too well! Dogmatic chains to bind minds! The searching, inquisitive mind is silenced wherever dogma and doctrine become gods.
Actually I have much more than immoral desires. I have the wonder of discover, the ability to rationalize evidence, a curiosity of the universe and the world around me and the ability to critically think while applying logic. All you have done is present irrational dogmatism in an attempt to refute the evidence I presented. All while selectively cherry-picking my statement to counter argue with statements based not on reality but, on dogmatic belief. To sit here and argue without question that the gospels are historically correct, leads one to assess that you have never taken the time to read them and analyze inconsistancies with one another or have never took the time to study the historical evidence that surrounds the accounts. And the way you ended your comment was an attempt to make me justify my morals based on my belief. It was a way to direct attention from your weak argument because you were unsure yourself that what you alluded to would hold ground.
C.G. Cruttenden,
You have given us some nice posts! Serious Bible scholars tell us that the Gospels are not historical narratives, let along eyewitness accounts. Today, that is naive. Luke copied more than 60% of Mark, and Matthew did even better with over 90%. Obviously, neither Matthew nor Luke were eyewitness reporters. As for Mark, possibly the first gospel of many to follow, it is a collection of assorted, diverse stories that were woven together to serve the doctrinal needs of his group. Mark also shows an unfamiliarity of Palestine. The four names, of course, are traditional. No one really knows who wrote the Gospels. (Under the thread "Differences in Approach" (11/22/2016 20:44) I treat the matter in more detail.)
When the conclusions of serious Bible scholars are mentioned, Bible-believers pull out their own "scholars." However, there is a world of difference between scholars who are interested in what the facts really say and apologists whose goal is to defend doctrine. Whether believers care to admit it or not, there is a real world out there with real Bible scholars, and they are in general agreement that the Gospels are not historical narratives. Jesus, the man, is a reasonable bet supported by most scholars, but his views are drowned under layers and layers of accumulated gunk. The Jesus Seminar (some years ago) tried to peel away those layers of gunk to get at the real Jesus. Their conclusion "The Five Gospels" is a fresh translation of the 4 Gospels (plus the Gospel of Thomas) where Jesus' sayings are color coded as to their likelihood of actually being spoken by Jesus. Many of them are colored "black" which means that Jesus would not have spoken them! It's a learning experience to wade through it and see what types of material gets the "black" color. There is also gray, pink, and red, the latter being something that the man Jesus would be expected to have said given reasonable assumptions about his existence in that time.
WIN
WIN
Corey,
I've been trying to reach you by e-mail. Check my last e-mail to you and get back to me. Looking forward to meeting with you.
Jim Spina
I know we are supposed to be respectful to the imbecile Christian retards but I just can't take it anymore. When the nut cases start talking about Adam and Eve and the talking snake or Noah's arc I can't handle it. In fact I can't understand why the rest of you(atheists) bother to even "debate" Adam and Eve and the talking snake with such idiots. It is an embarrassing to even have a conversation with those with half a brain.
"fred,k" is actually the infamous troll of the Atheist Republic forum.
Generally referred to as "Kenny", has been banned many times under different names.
Previously known aliases include: "Kenny Schweiger", "Kenny", "myself", "alleycat", "richardd", "Christopher", "marken", "punkin", "amber", "Simon".
Claims to be an atheist. But he has a fondness for using "sarcasm", even though no one ever gets his sarcasm and he has been told this many times, he keeps posting such deceiving comments.
He seems obsessed with religions, creationists and the stupidity of Fox News, Bill O'Reilly, Joel Osteen, Ted Cruz, Sean Hannity, Donald Trump, Vanna White, Sarah Palin, etc.
This announcement will be posted whenever he spams, agitates, confuses or flies of the handle.
I'm not clear on the sarcasm... Can you cite where he was being sarcastic in this thread? Is this based off of other forums or is there some bad blood between you guys?
That is a copied post originally done by "The Pragmatic"(a debater) to not feed the trolls.
You have been informed about the OP, now it is up to you to do what you wish with that information.
(there is no bad blood, just a user that has been banned several times for trolling and keep coming back)
Good day to you sir.
It's good of you to ask.
As they said, he is an well known infamous troll on this forum. And he has been banned many times, but he just comes back under a new name (which further adds to the confusion).
He often uses what he calls sarcasm, in this case he didn't. It's just information so people won't be so confused by his messages.
This is a good example of sarcasm he finds funny:
http://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/atheist-hub/atheist-saudi#comment-...
Some other interesting reads...
http://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/atheist-hub/my-coming-out#comment-...
http://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/debate-room/valiya-koran
Pragmatic- I encourage everyone to read my posts Pragmatic so happily listed for you. If you find "them" objectionable please write in to the Republic Atheist executive staff to have me "banned". If you see the humor and satire of the posts------stop laughing--it is so funny -you can't stop=-----laugh laugh funny funny. Even if you don't get the humor do you think expressing different even strident points of view are grounds for getting banished from the forum
“If you find "them" objectionable please write in to the Republic Atheist executive staff to have me "banned".
Like that hasn’t happened before: "Kenny Schweiger", "Kenny", "myself", "alleycat", "richardd", "Christopher", "marken", "punkin", "amber", "Simon".
Same song different verse LOL , if fred,k is added to the list so what?
Censoring a different point of view is one thing.
Banning someone who makes fun of people who need advice and are risking their lives to ask on the forum, is another matter. You are also filling up the forum with nonsense posts, and when no one replies to your "fascinating" subjects, you reply to yourself to keep the thread jumping up to the top.
And just to be clear. I'm not an admin, and have never banned you.
Pragmatic-I am tired of you ugly half a face. I am tired of you weak, timid lazy conversations with the idiots who believe in Adam and Eve and the talking snake, It is you not me who needs to be banned but you. Your lack of emotion, empathy of the "horrors of religion is an insult to all who have suffered in humiliation, pain torture and death because of God. Continue your "intellectual wordy, bullshit if you want. And leave me the f--k alone. It is I who should "call" atheist republic and have you banned for indifference to the terrible horrible very bad humiliation of religion. Also some of my satire was funny and if you couldn't understand that you have no sense of humor. But worse than that you are just like Jeff and Deprok Chopra full of fog of intellectual bullshit.
Kenny, as I already told you before, I'll be happy to leave you alone when you stop confusing newcomers with your "sarcasm" and stop spamming nonsense.
Hi, I value your opinion. I am conducting a survey concerning the perceptions of Christians and Christianity and would greatly appreciate any responses! https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/VCFQJT8