Hey everyone! I am an atheist. I have been an atheist for about 8 years now. I love debate and participating in discussions debating anything supernatural.
However, I know this guy that I cannot get into a debate with for reasons I will leave out, but he severely needs a little push back in his life. He lives in a complete echo chamber and makes some of the most outlandish and offensive/unsupported statements I have ever seen. He fancies himself an intellectual, but doesn't know the first thing about philosophy or constructing a coherent syllogism.
If you are looking for an opportunity to spar a little, this is a gold mine. Follow the links, read some and get fired up.
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We already got several of those right here. Common as.
I don't think that you do. If you have them here, they are at least stepping out of the echo chamber for some kind of air.
@MovieBuff: You have defined 50 to 60% of the theist trolls that frequent this site. Inane assertions supported by more inane assertions and each time they are pinned down they shift the topic and run away. From what I have seen, this is just par for the course.
Again... The difference is that if they show up here, they are stepping out of the echo chamber regardless of if they change their mind or not.
I sure did find the debate section. That's two replies looking to debate me about nothing. I'm just offering an interesting opportunity to discuss something with someone who would never be willing to challenge their beliefs on their own. This is different from what you would come across here where they are at least voluntarily looking to be challenged.
@MovieBuff
"This is different from what you would come across here where they are at least voluntarily looking to be challenged."
Please do your research before you make an assertion. Your quoted statement is rendered invalid by the presence of ferguson1951 in this forum. He did not come here to learn or be challenged.
And there are more.
While your statement that individuals are stepping out of their echo chamber, if they visit arenas of discourse beyond that echo chamber, is of course basically true, there's a subtle point to be made here. Namely, that visiting a place such as this, only to engage in hubristic displays of self-righteousness and ideological stormtrooping for their bad ideas, does not constitute 'participation in discourse' as is usually understood by the term. Those of us who genuinely participate in discourse, do so by testing the validity or soundness of ideas presented. If anything, coming here and behaving in the manner just described, committing egregious offences against the rules of proper discourse while doing so, is in some respects worse than remaining in their own echo chambers and keeping their garbage to themselves.
Though the assorted voluntary cannon fodder that do come here in this vein, of course, provide us with much pedagogically useful material with which to warn against the perils of adherence to nonsense. Sadly, though, that is frequently the only service they perform, with the nastiest specimens also providing us with new species of duplicity to catalogue.
@Calilasseia: Full agreement! But let us not forget, the real echo chamber is all that bullshit bouncing off one ear and onto the next only to bounce again ad- infinitum. Sneaking anything at all past the whirlwind of garbage would be a minor miracle.
"here where they are at least voluntarily looking to be challenged"
Not even close to being true. Seriously check out some of the threads. As others have said, you're pretty much describing the majority of theists who come through here.
Turning up in a debate forum does not in anyway remotely infer they're willing to subject their beliefs to debate. Many of them, especiallt the stupidest ones like Ferguson simply want to preach sermons at us.
Re: Cog - "MovieBuff: You have defined 50 to 60% of the theist trolls that frequent this site."
To add to what Cog said, yeah, we get more than our share of those type theists here as it is. Why on Earth would we want to go actively seeking for them??? After all, It has been shown time and time again that none of them have any intentions or desire whatsoever to allow any amount of facts, reason, or rationality disturb their precious faith. At least when they come here they are fair game for whatever criticisms we throw at them. On the other hand, if we (atheists) go "hunting" for them (theists) on their own sites in an attempt to challenge their beliefs, then we (atheists) become the intruders. And at that point (in my personal opinion) we are not much better than those theists who come here trying to preach to us and tell us we are all going to hell.... *shrugging shoulders*...
(Edit to add) Re: MovieBuff - "This is different from what you would come across here where they are at least voluntarily looking to be challenged."
And that is my point. They are not looking to be challenged. Therefore, who am I to invade their personal area and present that challenge? As long as they are not causing or promoting harm to others, I personally could not care less what they choose to believe. None of my business, as far as I am concerned. Now, if for some reason they arrive here and want to have a respectable discussion, then I am happy to oblige. And if they come here here slinging insults and making outlandish claims, then I will happily show them the errors of their way... *mischievous grin*... Otherwise, if they don't bother me, then I will not bother them. It's only fair.
If you don't feel right going, then don't. I, on the other hand, feel that someone like this who is an active voter and political activist, needs their views challenged. It is the moral high ground to at least get them to think. As long as it can be approached amicably and without ad hominems, it is what is needed.
I would argue that the theist that come here are also in the right morally speaking. They honestly believe that our eternal fate is at stake. When I was a fundamental believer I always used the analogy with other believers I talked to that if we are aren't talking to those around us that are "lost" about Jesus, we are the same as someone who saw a babies crawling across the highway and made no effort to get them to safety. So I hope you are no better than these theists, because what they are doing is what they believe is for the greater good.
On another note, I love your avatar and name. The Wizard of Oz is tied for my favorite film of all time with the 1933 King Kong.
@MB Re: "I love your avatar and name. The Wizard of Oz is tied for my favorite film..."
Mucho gracias. Tin-Man is a nickname that has been with me for a very long time, and for various reasons as the years have passed. Primarily has to do with the heart, obviously. Mostly the debate has been about whether or not I actually have one... *chuckle*... Opinions do vary, though, I suppose... *grin*...
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Just look at this post. Anyone who enjoys debate should be drooling to go after this post.
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@ MB
Meh, hear and see that shite so many times. As Tin Man said if he is nutty enough to actually believe that shite there is no point in me wasting my time and intellect debating with the critter.
If however he gets in my face or interrupts my equilibrium with his bullshine than I will tear him to tiny pieces and drown him in his own inconsistencies and lies. Otherwise he can cry into his rusks all he wants.
If you want me I am watching the Poo Flinging Contest at the Primate Hut and having a drink with Tin Man.
@Old Man Re: "...the Poo Flinging Contest at the Primate Hut..."
What the...??? That contest is TODAY??? Aw, maaaan! I totally forgot! Dammit! And I left my mask and snorkel at home!... *throwing hands up in frustration*...
@MB
Just out of curiosity, is that site an open debate site hosted by "neutral" parties, or is it a dedicated Christian site hosted by Christian owners/operators?
Nah, it seems to be his own preaching site. He is one of those turkeys that smell a profit or at least some sort of dubious 'fame' by internet preaching.
Personally I wouldn't use him as a font of anything except self styled bullshite.
And yes the contest is today...you were meant to bring the clean up gear? Sheesh...I have to do everything round here...Chimp 3 and Cog have been practising in the laundry again...*sigh*
@Old Man Re: "Chimp 3 and Cog have been practising in the laundry again...*sigh*"
Ah. THAT explains the smell when I walked by there earlier today... *holding nose closed*....
(Edit to add) Re: Preaching site
Oh-ho! Alrighty then. That means ol' dude will DEFINITELY not tolerate anybody visiting his site and making him look bad in front of his peeps. I doubt there is an atheist on this site that would be allowed more than two posts on that site before being shown the door in a most unceremonious fashion. Yeah, I have better things to do with my time.... *covering self with plastic sheeting*... Hey, would you pass me those nachos, please. Want to get them under wraps before the flinging starts.
Heh, I'm aware of one individual whose modus operandi consisted of preaching assorted creationist bullshit, and citing as a supposedly "valid" source of information, his own vanity forum in which he is the only poster.
This individual has appeared on several rationalist forums, and has been banned from them repeatedly for creating a small army of sock puppets to continue this duplicitous practice. If you see names such as Angelobrazil, Jireh, Elshamah and the like cropping up here, then the ban hammer will be twitching and awaiting wielding the moment his discoursive criminality becomes apparent, should he choose to pollute our forums with his garbage.
Our own Nyarlathotep may be aware of this individual, or if not, gathering intelligence thereupon after this post.
@MB Re: Post made by the Kenny Phelps dude
Oh, what the hell... I have a few spare minutes. Let's examine what the darling theist has to say...
Hmmmm..... Ahhh, yep. Just as I suspected. Mr. Phelps seems to know for certain that Miss O'Hare is roasting her ass off in hell right now. Obviously, good ol' Kenny (as god calls him) has some sort of "insider knowledge" of what his god decides to do with people after they die. Nice. So, I can only guess that he has his god's personal cell phone number as opposed to the Heaven Corporate Office help desk number. Must be pretty damn convenient, I must say. Certainly does save all the hassle of having to go through all the automated phone services just to get stuck leaving a message to which his god may or may not respond.
In regards to Richard Hawkins (sic), however.... *perplexed look on face*.... Exactly how old is Kenny such that he is able to be so familiar with Richard Hawkins??? And how in the name of ever lovin' loaded mashed potatoes did Mr. Richard Hawkins become famous in movies and television during the 17th Century??? Wow! Having a direct line to the Almighty certainly does have its perks, I reckon.
Ummmm.... Yeah... Ya know, MB, thanks for the offer. However, all things considered, I honestly do not see much of a challenge in being able to shred that guy to pieces. (And I am not even the smartest guy on this forum.) And if Mr. Phelps is your friend, then please know you have my heart-felt sympathies. No wonder you came here looking for somebody to thrash him.
Told ya so GM
Who the fuck is Richard Hawkins? Seriously you're wasting your time debating with anyone that wilfully ignorant and blinkered. Just point and laugh, as that's what you'll end up doing anyway.
Seen all before, too many times.
@Sheldon
Richard Hawkins was a 17th Century explorer... lol...
Meanwhile, looking at this Kenny individual's output ...this falls in the category of "insufficiently competent to deserve a point of view" ...
I love Calilasseia's insults. "When the Rational mind has simply had enough!"
Richard Hawkins would be like Richard Dawkins and Stephen Hawking's combined into one single scientific mind. That's your evolutionary biology and astrophysics covered, not that that Christians are generally interested in anything that involves evidence and facts it's more about believing in something hard enough until it becomes true. 'Millhouse the Grand Pumpkin isn't real!'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woZ9fCJqQHc
@MovieBuff
I don't do facebook. If their not at AR, then I have nothing else to say.
As far as this Richard Dawkins and Stephen Hawking thing goes, he had that same part in a post he did a year or two ago. I pointed out the error to him without challenging anything else he said, yet here he is saying the same thing again. I have no doubt that if anyone does decide to challenge him, his mind will not be swayed in the slightest. However, he has a lot of people that look at his posts and agree with him. Some of them might be swayed since they didn't have to put their money down and are just spectating.
Come on... Someone at least wants to post this.
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