One of the single most annoying aspects I have against religion is the protected status it appears to have.
Personally I have no objection to anyone needing religion to make their lives happier, crack on with it!
But the whole enshrining it to become legally protected appears to me to be as pathetic as it is counter intuitive.
Their god is so great, wise and powerful that it requires partially evolved primates to make up laws so 'naughty people can't say bad things... awwww!'
In the UK this seems fairly prevalent for as long as I can remember, albeit you could ridicule the Church of England to a degree... however, this isn't the case for all other religions over here, as you'll be instantly demonized for being racist or 'religion of choice-aphobic'.
This crap really needs to be stopped, theists have a world view and so do atheists... neither should be immune from ridicule, protected by law or exempt from the law and paying taxes and so on...
Could there ever be a level playing field?
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Could there be a level playing field?
Random, I expect that this was the sort of question Christians and Muslims asked when they were just upstart heresies.
Now they hold power in most societies some would prefer to keep the entire playing field off limits altogether, to all non believers.
The extreme activities of Mossad over the last seven decades demonstrate just how rigidly some Jews might view the issue.
I share the same disgust that the religious view their so-called omnipotent gods as being so preciously wimpy as to care what non believers think or say of them and that they themselves need to intervene and punish these 'arrogant nonbelievers' to save their powerful gods the trouble in the supposed afterlife. But we all know who is really offended and no, its not the non existent gods.
What is really ridiculous is how the religious insist on their freedom of speech to publicly voice their concerns on matters like how people should live, who they sleep with, who they marry, what books they read or write and what they say in public and attempt to frame these issues in federal legislation to satisify themselves and then wail and moan about their critics, exercising their freedom of speech, attacking precious religious beliefs and pooncy soft-skinned deities.
The newly appointed PM of Oz was recently lampooned in song for the glaring differences between his publicly paraded Hillsong-Pentecostal Christianity and his equally public and heartless treatment of legal asylum seekers which the UN described as barbaric and inhumane. The resulting outrage the humourous little ditty evoked from the religious right included a strong declaration that such a scathing attack on the beloved PM heightened the obvious need to introduce firm laws to protect religious feelings.
The playing field might well be levelled one day but for the moment it remains a battle ground complete with trenches and a lot of people here in Oz aren't even aware there's a war going on, because its football grand final season. *sigh
They do love to try and ringfence their superstitions from critical examination, and of course to ridicule ludicrous and vapid beliefs unsupported by any objective evidence is considered rude or even cruel only when they are pronounced religious. While they chuckle at conspiracy theorists, alien abduction stories, and of course cults, rather ironically.
The religious do not only use laws of course. They have a nack of presenting special pleading fallacies as if they are deeply profound intellectual facts.
One does not need to read an encylopedia on unicorn husbandry to disbelieve unicorns exist. So why do the overly credulous promote both bible and koran as if they are key to evidencing the deity they have chosen to believe is the "real one" from all the fakes, when this is objectively impossible.
It'll come as no surprise that I don't care for such intellect dishonesty and snobbery.
I am a in favour of the UK becoming a republic. No more state religion headed by an equally parasitic monarchy promoting themselves in tandem as essential, and preserving their sense of entitlement with a haughty derision for the hoi polloi.
There can never be a level playing field in the Abrahamic faiths. They are "Closed Religions." You are either a member or a non-member. You are "in" or "out." You are one of God's chosen people or you are not. If you are not "You are not one of us." in the least, and "You are bound for eternal suffering and damnation," in the most. There is no level playing field for Judaism, Christianity or Islam. Their dogma forbids it.
@Cog
"There can never be a level playing field in the Abrahamic faiths." False
"You are "in" or "out." You are one of God's chosen people or you are not. " In regards to Islam, again, false.
What is the penalty for apostasy in Islam?
OH PLEASE! Are you really that ignorant of your own religion? Either you are outright lying or you are not a Muslim as you are denying the holy word of Allah and Muhammad his IGNORANT Prophet. By its very nature Islam is in fact a Closed Religion. This is a fact. It is an "In-group / Out-group" belief system.
SO SAYS THE FRIGGING QUARAN
Disbelief is the greatest evil. 7:37
Allah will destroy non-muslim cultures. 7:138-9
Don't make treaties with non-Muslims. They are all evildoers and should not be trusted. 9:7-9
Muslims that make friends with disbelievers will face a doom prepared for them by Allah. 5:80
Do not choose disbelievers as friends. 4:144
If the unbelievers do not offer you peace, kill them wherever you find them. Against such you are given clear warrant. 4:91
Don't believe anyone who is not a Muslim. 3:73
Non-muslims will be punished by Allah for their nonbelief. 3:19
Allah is an enemy to the disbelievers. 2:98
The curse of Allah is on disbelievers. 2:89
Don't bother warning the disbelievers. Allah has made it impossible for them to believe so that he can torture them forever after they die. 2:6-7
Allah has blinded the disbelievers. "Allah taketh away their light and leaveth them in darkness, where they cannot see, Deaf, dumb and blind." 2:17-18
Christians and Jews (who believe in only part of the Scripture), will suffer in this life and go to hell in the next. 2:85
Disbelievers are losers. 2:121
Those who disbelieve in the Quran, for whatever reason, are cursed by Allah, the angels, and men combined. So every good Muslim must join Allah and the angels in cursing nonbelievers. 2:161
"Those who disbelieve [are] Deaf, dumb, blind, therefore they have no sense." 2:171
Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (But if they desist in their unbelief, then don't kill them.) 2:191-2
It's you and your religion against them and theirs. They won't stop fighting until they make you a "renegade from your religion" and if they succeed in that so you die in disbelief, Allah will burn you forever in the Fire. 2:217
Intermarriage is forbidden. 2:221
"The disbelievers, they are the wrong-doers." 2:254
"Give us victory over the disbelieving folk." 2:286
Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends in preference to believers. 3:28
Do not obey disbelievers. 3:149
Christians and Jews must believe what Allah has revealed to Muhammad or Allah will disfigure their faces or turn them into apes, as he did the Sabbath-breakers. (See 2:65-66) 4:47
Unbelievers will be tormented forever with fire. When their skin is burned off, a fresh skin will be provided. 4:56
The disbelievers are an open enemy to you. 4:101
Stay away from nonbelievers who mock your beliefs or Allah will treat you like them. (He'll torture you forever in hell after you die.) 4:140a
Don't choose Jews, Christians, or disbelievers as guardians. 5:57
The worst beasts in Allah's sight are the disbelievers. 8:55
There is probably not a single page in the Quaran that would not be offensive to a non-believer. Hatred towards non-believers on every page.
Cognostic,
"By its very nature Islam is in fact a Closed Religion. This is a fact. It is an "In-group / Out-group" belief system.
SO SAYS THE FRIGGING QUARAN"
The funny thing is that just about every one of those ideas are expressed in the Bible. The committee that wrote the Bible used nicer words but they kept the same ideas.
Yes - It's all a part of the Abrahamic belief systems. Jews, Christians and Muslims all adhere to the same sort of BS. You are in the group or out of the group. You are with us or against us. Black and White logic abounds in these systems. You are one of God's chosen people or you are not. It's just that simple.
@ SfT
1st answer is actually TRUE. There can never be a level playing ground, especially with the Abrahamic faiths. Within all three, their religious text preaches nothing but narcissism. Those within these faiths are "better" than the unbelievers because the believers get to go heaven while the unbelievers go to Hell. Where is the level playing field when y'all are taught you are better than any others?
2nd answer you also got wrong. ALL of the Abrahamic religions, even your sorry and pathetic Islam says so. Read that deplorable and miserable Iron Age text of faerie tales you are always spewing diarrhea about.
Edit: removed reference to a post I thought was in this thread...
2nd Edit: found reference, it was above, not below: http://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/debate-room/level-playing-field#comment-115902
rmfr
@Random
Re: "however, this isn't the case for all other religions over here, as you'll be instantly demonized for being racist or 'religion of choice-aphobic'."
I do not know about the UK but, i know in the US this actually started to become the case when liberals started "taking over" and they went after any and every minority group they thought were being oppressed and decided they needed to defend them. It reached the point to where you can no longer even voice an opinion, as harmless as it might be, without getting in trouble to a certain extent. Combine that with businesses siding with the "free thinking progressives" and we have actually gone backwards when it comes to freedoms. Religion (Islam and Christianity) happened to be a "victim" of this whole thing and they have taken full advantage of it. As far as i know, they only truly "protected" religion or race has been the Jews and Judaism, even asking a question becomes labeled Anti-Semitic, even given an honest opinion will be labeled the same. Even as a Muslim, things like this do often frustrate me but, i ask myself, what if everyone was left to say whatever they wanted to anyone, would that be better? imagine the violence that would erupt. While i do not think this is the best solution, i think it might be the best solution we have at the moment.
The Jews have their "Anti-semantic" rant.
The Muslims have "Islamophobia"
The Christians have "Persecution complex."
All of them protect themselves by claiming prejudice and bigotry. That is what religions do any time their dogma is questioned or shown to be nothing but foolishness.
Attacking a religion, it's doctrine and dogma, and attacking what people claim to believe, is vastly different from generically attacking all adherents of a religion. When you hear criticisms that contain religious adjective like Jew, Muslim, or Christian then it is usually a sign the person has an agenda against people, rather than against pernicious beliefs contained within the respective religion those people adhere to.
The same of course can said when people try to create negative stereotypes using generic terms like liberal. The idea liberals per se represent a threat to free speech is pretty funny though. A liberal is as capable of folly and stupidity as anyone else, but no more so than anyone else.
Sheldon, in this instance, you define "attacking" as what, exactly? I just want to be precise, because I may be misunderstanding your post. TY!
"This crap really needs to be stopped, theists have a world view and so do atheists... neither should be immune from ridicule, protected by law or exempt from the law and paying taxes and so on.."
Excellent OP; bravo. The religious crap does need to be stopped. But with some users in this crowd? HAH! They're waiting on their barker loungers until their doorbell rings. They can't actually be DOING something. Perish the thought. "I won't evangelize atheism", One said.
This religious crap does need to be stopped. But not the guys on this forum. I bet they don't even donate to Atheists Republic. $3.00 a month.
I guess SFT is never going to tell us what Islam demands as the penalty for apostasy? Maybe he hasn't been told that yet?
I know! I know!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJknZ4KsE4A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8haADqeuNRg
@Cog Re: Penalty for Apostasy
Well, as anybody can plainly see, it is quite obvious the government officials in Sudan (and other such Islamic countries) are CLEARLY taking the scriptures from the Koran totally out of context and are not interpreting them in the proper manner. Surly Mohammed and Allah must be terribly disappointed by the way those countries and their respective government officials and religious leaders are giving the oh-so-kind and loving peaceful religion of Islam such a bad and nasty reputation. Somebody should volunteer to go over there and explain to them how WRONG they are for following the peaceful and loving teachings of the Koran in such a horrible manner.
Hey, I know! How about we all pool our money together for a plane ticket to Sudan, and maybe Hulkster would be willing to go over there as a diplomat and explain to them how and why they are wrong in the way they follow the Koran. After all, he IS our resident expert on the subject, right? And how expensive could the ticket really be? I mean, it would only have to be a one-way ticket, right?..... Hmmmm..... Then again, on second thought, scratch that idea. I do believe I would actually miss the big green guy. Oh, well. It was worth a shot.
Now That's Something I want to see: HULKSTERS reinterpretations appear in parentheses.
Disbelief is the greatest evil. 7:37
Allah will destroy (defend) non-muslim cultures. 7:138-9
Don't (Do) make treaties (treats) with non-Muslims. They are all evildoers (kind)and should ----- be trusted (with your best cookware.) 9:7-9
Muslims that make friends with disbelievers will face a doom (reward) prepared for them by Allah. 5:80
Do not choose disbelievers as friends (enemies). 4:144
If the unbelievers do not offer you peace (be kind to them anyway) , kill them wherever you find them. Against such you are given (no) clear warrant. 4:91
------ (B)elieve anyone who is not a Muslim. 3:73
Non-muslims will be punished (rewarded) by Allah for their nonbelief. 3:19
Allah is an enemy to the disbelievers. 2:98
The curse (blessing) of Allah is on disbelievers. 2:89
Can you imagine him going up to a stoning and telling the good Muslims they are doing it all wrong? "Wait a minute guys, this isn't in the Quaaran."
OKAY OKAY - I can hear the Hulkster now "Stoning is not in the Quaran." Well...... There is still warrant for it in Islam. An explanation for why rajm is not mentioned in the Quran comes from a report credited to Muhammad's favorite wife Aisha: The Hadiths are every bit as bad as the Quaaran.
[Narrated 'Aisha] "The verse of the stoning and of suckling an adult ten times were revealed, and they were (written) on a paper and kept under my bed. When the messenger of Allah expired and we were preoccupied with his death, a goat entered and ate away the paper."
If the bible and the qur'an was published for the first time today, they would probably be banned under anti-terrorism laws, if the laws were consistently applied.