I have neighbors that are muslim. They are from Pakistan. Recently the house next to them was leased to obvious rednecks. The rednecks have too many dogs that bark, cry, and whine, all day and all night. My Pakistani neighbors asked me what they could do about it. I told them if they called the city, nothing would happen not even a fine. If they called the police non-emergency number, a patrolman will issue a ticket and keep issuing tickets until the problem stops.
My Pakistani friends said no they can't do that. I asked why. They said it is their express custom to treat neighbors and guest as sacred. That Islam forbids them to violate the custom. Even if your enemy is your guest or your neighbor, you cannot bring harm in any way to them.
This was an interesting aspect of islam that I wasn't aware of. Often in my career I found negotiator's contacting the enemy and asking to be "guest" to discuss situations. They didn't seem afraid at all when they went to meet the enemy. Now I know why. If a muslim declares that you are a guest, they must lay down their life to protect you, even if you are a sworn enemy.
Has anyone else come across this, or know enough about the Koran to explain this custom?
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Your neighbours are quite correct....
It is a custom...... but it is ONLY a custom......it is not derived from the Quran ...it comes from the Hadiths...the great bag of pick and mix Islamic lore.
It seems to derive from the myth of Abraham (Ibrahim) being visited by three angels...
It seems to be a custom of some virtue ... but ...beware there are constraints on the "guest" as well as the host ..... it seems there are some circumstances where a "guest" may have his favoured status removed.....
link:
http://hibamagazineblog.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/islamic-etiquette-of-host...
I believe the offering of food or drink implies you are accepted as guest .....but it must be offered not just taken....
Do you remember the scene in Kingdom of Heaven ...when water is offered to the defeated Guy de Lusignan (then king of Jerusalem) ... Guy passes the cup the Reynuad of Chatilon...who then drinks.....Salahudin then points out that Reynauld did not receive the drink from him.... just prior to slashing his throat.....
Not sure of the historicity of these events ...but I believe the principles of the rules of Islamic hospitality are more or less accurate..
Hi watchman
There is a difference between a custom and a religious injunction. For example, Muslims in some countries drink Gahwa. That's a custom. But muslims also pray five times a day. That's not a custom, but a religious injunction. The difference is that one is based not on any prophetic or quranic statement, but is simply a practice that evolved from culture. There are no divine rewards or punishments associated with a custom. However, a religious injunction is much more serious than that. If it is broken, then one has to fear God. The duties a muslim has towards a neighbor is something that is explained in great detail by the prophet. It is also emphasized in the Quran - Sura Ma'oon. It equates a person who denies help to a neighbor as a person who has rejected the faith - which for a muslim is no small thing.
That is exactly the answer I was looking for. Thank You. A religious injunction? I had no idea. My neighbor must have said "custom" because He thought I wouldn't understand a religious injunction.
Do you have something against rednecks? I am from the south, and while I do not count myself as one of them, I do find that they are generally good people.
Yes I do. Rednecks came about describing farmers that worked the land and would be sunburn on the back of their necks. Now it has become synonymous with racist whites that like angry racist country music, NASCAR, pro-wrestling, evangelical christianity, NRA, anti-abortion, homophobic, anti-immigrant, unedcudated or wrongly brainwashed educated, hateful warmongers. The cherish the rebel flag and are against anything positive or progressive. It isn't a southern thing. There are rednecks all over. Some are rich, most are poor. All of them are white. They disrespect everyone that doesn't hold their ideology. Many are NAZIs.
Oh, you mean those. No, I was talking about actual farmers. Distinguish.
A farmer can be a redneck. A redneck can be a farmer. One doesn't have to be the other.
No, but being one doesn't make you the other either.
I do not agree I think rednecks are racist
Stereotypical. Not all of them are.
WTF are rednecks?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redneck
OK after a read here it seems Keeper of Worlds(stop changing names) is correct, one should not be Stereotypical.
"Stereotypical. Not all of them are."
Islamic Custom is a problem since "Customs" should only be allowed if they do not break the laws of a country.
The problem is that there is no enforcement for some customs which are enforced on children.
Basically children are forced into customs simply because they are not thought it is just a custom.
A perfect example is the covering from head to toe of woman because it is an Islamic Custom.
A video that has rednecks mentioned and the Islamic Custom for woman:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHxQ5b9yc88
Don't worry, Jeff. Not more than 500 times.
Okay the thread is about a particular custom that encountered first in combat when negotiators went unarmed to talk with the enemy. They didn't feel that they were in any danger. The local adviser said that the enemy will not harm the negotiators because they are bound by their faith not to. I came across it again years later in of all places my neighborhood. True different tribes different customs. One should know who you are dealing with before possibly placing oneself in danger.
Now for rednecks. In my OP I called one of my neighbors a redneck. It is a derogatory term. Yes it is a stereotype. However it isn't a stereotype if the person fits the description.
As for the term itself. As with all terms they evolve and change in meaning. Example "gay" use to mean carefree, but now it is a sexual orientation. It has been a derogatory term. As in when someone drops a fly and person states "That's gay."
Redneck takes on a deeper meaning. It is political and both derogatory and term of pride and endearment. It no longer fits it's original meaning. It is rapidly escaping it's regionality as "rednecks" are popping up everywhere. Uninformed conservative racist voters and political activist are now considered rednecks.
But, that dosent mean that is what the term means for everyone. You are not the be all end all of meanings and definitons, and neither are your sources that you may/may not have.
I don't profess to be. However my sources are valid even though I haven't offered any in this thread. I will now offer Webster's Dictionary definition:
redneckplay
noun red·neck \ˈred-ˌnek\
Popularity: Top 10% of words
Simple Definition of redneck
: a white person who lives in a small town or in the country especially in the southern U.S., who typically has a working-class job, and who is seen by others as being uneducated and having opinions and attitudes that are offensive
Webster's Dictionary is a very valid source.
Yes, and some would consider the many dictionary's of the world that claim atheism to be "wickedness" to be valid. Yet, those are not be-all-end-all, and neither is the single source provided by you.
I think that you are overreacting. First of all I don't know of any credible dictionaries that would equate atheism with wickedness. Key word is credible. Secondly I never claimed that I was the "be-all-end-all" that you have decided to call me. So just settle down and think about it. Besides If Webster's Dictionary defines a word, you can pretty sure bet that most if not all credible dictionaries will agree.
Here is what Oxford's Dictionary has to say:
NOUN
North American informal, derogatory
A working-class white person, especially a politically reactionary one from a rural area:
rednecks in the high, cheap seats stomped their feet and hooted
[AS MODIFIER]: a place of redneck biases
They call it a derogatory term.
Dictionary.com says:
NOUN
North American informal, derogatory
A working-class white person, especially a politically reactionary one from a rural area:
rednecks in the high, cheap seats stomped their feet and hooted
[AS MODIFIER]: a place of redneck biases
So you see, you are overreacting.
I suppose you are correct. My apologies for overreacting.
No need to apologize. You have a valid opinion, and I wasn't insulted. You disagree with how rednecks are defined at large. That's fine. I just posted what the general definition is.
Well, I feel like an idiot.
You're not an idiot by any means!
No, I suppose it's just the fact that I'm 16. Though you could consider me more mature than some of my compatriots, I still have my moments.
I tend to find with Pakistanis in this country (note: a sweeping generalization) that many of them value their customs and religion above British society and (more importantly) above British law. Most UK Muslims see no conflict between their religion and British law. Nor do they see conflict between being a Muslim and being British. However when these questions have arisen, I have never spoken to a Muslim online, however moderate, who didn't say he was "Muslim first". The instance you quote Myke may be another example of peaceful, law-abiding, well-intentioned and good-natured Muslims who instinctively react by putting their homeland customs before that of their adoptive country. They're entitled to that choice of course.
Your initial post seems to make it perfectly clear that they use their interpretation of the Hadiths or Koran to explain their response to their neighbor. They say it's a national custom but it's Islam (or their version) that justifies the response. Everything many Muslims do seem to be checked against what they believe "Islam" to be.
Some Muslims look to local religious courts and Imams to resolve matters from divorce to domestic violence. It is argued that Halal/Kosher meat violates animal rights and that circumcision (of boys and girls) when it is carried out for mainly religious reasons conflicts with children's rights. Many Muslims see no conflict at all while insisting on halal meat and circumcision of their baby child. All this might tend to undermine the principle of one law for all, as is the wish of many Muslims to see "Sharia compliant" laws.
Some UK Muslims (perhaps more the home-grown ones than the first generation) blame "British culture" and/or secularism for every vice known to man. Some of them plainly despise British culture.
From:
http://www.muslimsinbritain.org/index.html
Quote: The concept of Fundamentalism originated with Christians who were determined to stick to the literal text of the Bible or traditional religious opinion that contradicted the picture of the world emerging from natural sciences. It has since come to mean the concept of applying rigid religious doctrines to everyday life in any religion, so there are several aspects to fundamentalism to consider. These are: literalism in divine books, the relationship between religion and science in interpreting human experience, the impact of religious certainty on secular life, and the significance of religious moral absolutes in running society. The last one is only relevant to countries where religious political parties are influential, but the other three all impact on choices such as schools run on religious lines, community reactions to moral issues and inter-community tensions....
Every Muslim by definition believes in the Qur’an in Arabic as the literal, unchangeable Word of God, so in this restricted sense every Muslim is a ‘fundamentalist’.
(MuslimsInBritain.org is a site dedicated to providing resources for Muslims and non-Muslims in Britain to live and work effectively together).
I agree with your basic premise. I find though that each person is an individual and act according to their own interpretation and own guidelines. Example being is that my neighbor says that he is required by faith to attend his mosque on a daily basis (head of the household). He only goes on Fridays. He is suppose to have two separate living areas for his family, one for the men, and one for the women, but he doesn't. My neighbor is very progressive. They all dress western and are western culturalized. They are by far the most tolerant neighbors in the neighborhood. However, I am the only neighbor that they interact with. They have many friends and a great many of their friends are European-American. I don't see and apparently they don't see any conflict with their religion and modern western culture.
What I know of muslims(limited) is that those that have the greatest conflict with westerners are those that are disenfranchised and marginalized in some manner. The leaders of some groups blame popular western culture for the ills of their society. Indeed pop-culture has eroded civility in all cultures. We Americans have as a society have placed football over education as a priority. Clearly a misguided practice created by pop culture.
It is the extreme reaction to things like this by any and all cultures that cause conflict.
We can all find common ground. I find a great deal in common with my islamic neighbors. I consider them friends. Religion is a problem with any progressive culture. Religion is restrictive, doesn't allow for for free thought. Promotes separation and division. It solves societal problems with dogma(outdated bullshit), and isolation, and sometimes even violence. It forbids things that may have made sense centuries ago, but aren't relevant today. Like eating pork, or forcing women to wear certain clothing. I met a muslim that wanted to play high school football but his father wouldn't let him because he had to expose his body in a common shower. That same kid went to the beach every day and all of his family went also. It's hypocritical and ridiculous.
My neighbor is both unique and common. He is very patriotic to the USA to the point that he actually wanted the USA to engage Al-Qeada in Pakistan, claiming that Pakistan is a corrupt country.
All very good, thought inspiring points. I feel this world could learn much from the likes of you. Alas, I fear it is not to be. But anywho
May you be forever touched by His Noodly Appendages
Glob bless
R'amen