I'm a little surprised not to see any threads on this yet, so I'll weigh in. Firstly there is now little doubt that Trump was involved in criminal behaviour, or at the very least complicit in paying others to commit criminal acts.
Since his election in November 2016, Trump’s campaign chairman, his deputy campaign manager, his national security adviser, his personal lawyer and a foreign policy aide have all admitted crimes or been convicted. at the very least even his most ardent supporters must surely see what this says about his judgement if nothing else.
One gets the impression that the longer he stays in office now, the more it will tarnish both US politics and the office of President.
I'll not pretend I don't dislike his politics or the man himself, but this has become largely moot now, given the evidence of criminal behaviour unfolding in recent days. There is little doubt he has the morals of a randy Stote, but this is not the issue, as his lies have taken on a different significance given the office he first aspired to, and now holds. A sad day for American politics on the whole.
Shades of Clinton, and Nixon here, another narcissist in love with their own self image, and believing themselves untouchable. There are some people who should simply never hold positions of power, and whilst Clinton was clever enough to fool a great many until it was too late, one wonders what people saw in Trump that they thought worthy of the White house.
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Trump got into the Whitehouse because of the electoral college not wanting a woman as President. I'll take Trump as President over Pence being President.
I was born on October 14th, and I share the same birthday, and also the name of one of your greatest Presidents, Dwight David Eisenhower. Even though I was born and live in Canada, we thought of the USA as the shining light of democracy, technology, and world leadership. Some of my greatest heroes are from the USA, from Audie Murphy to Lindbergh, to even Curtis E LeMay. The more astute and aware understand that some of those names are even Republicans and hard-liners.
I do not define myself to any political party, I lean towards those who have the best solutions and display leadership.
Oh, what has happened to a great nation that is sliding back to the dark ages, where a corrupt con man has been given so much power?
What do us outsiders think? A few months ago I was in heated argument of the manager of a retail outlet that was being prickly. It got so bad I called him a version of Trump. He was actually hurt, and promptly refunded my product.
I am an outsider, from France, and I sincerely hope that, as a country, you will recover from this... 'tribulation'. But don't be so hard on yourself, in some regards, all countries, including my own, have to deal with their demons.
Killens, you Canadian? We don't need no stinkin' Canadian rabble rousers in these here parts. If it ain't Amer-ican, they some Canadian Communist too lazy to become Amer-ican oughta' jest piss up where the sun don' shine.
Commie Canadian filth!
@ MB
Hey! Whoa! Hold on there me lady. Don't go fussing at me northern brethren. We shouldn't be bad mouthing our betters.
SEE ATTACHED IMAGE
rmfr
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lolololol
I've never seen that map. that's funny.
you must be a commie, too
Me, a commie? Is that anything like a homie?
rmfr
@Arakish Re: "Me, a commie? Is that anything like a homie?"
Actually, I believe a commie is basically just the opposite of a goie.
How about the Welsh, they welcome?
What most people, myself included, saw in Trump was that he was not Hillary Clinton. For me it came down to the evil I knew well v. a buffoon. I went for the buffoon.
"What most people, myself included, saw in Trump was that he was not Hillary Clinton. For me it came down to the evil I knew well v. a buffoon. I went for the buffoon."
I hate fulfilling Godwin's law, so I can offer no parallels.
It is well known and proven Trump has done a lot of illegal behavior on top of the latest Cohen confession of trump's illegal behavior (and at any other time other the crazy time we currently live in, the Paul Manafort trial result.)
- The president is openly using his hotel in downtown Washington to accept direct payments from people, corporations, and foreign states with lobbying interests before the United States government. Meanwhile, he’s doing the same thing with more secrecy at his golf clubs in New Jersey, Virginia, and Florida.
- Fake charitable foundation as a form of illegal tax evasion.
- Bribed attorney general of Florida to prevent scrutiny of his fake university, (still paid a 25 million dollar civil settlement, barely a slap on the wrist to him)
And that is just the more recent stuff.
- He avoided bankruptcy with his casino early on with an illegal loan from his father.
- Empty Jewelry box scam to avoid paying thousands in taxes on expensive jewelry purchases, he then threw the participating jewelry store under the bus to save his own skin when busted.
- racial discrimination in apartments he owned (to please a mob boss)
- FTC violations for his stock purchases
- SEC violations for his financial reporting
And this is just the tip of the iceberg, the stuff that has plenty of evidence and that you and I would go to jail for, but he does not.
Worse still, he is the president of the US whether we like it or not. He is basically immune to indictment from the courts. The president is the check on the courts in our checks and balance system. The check on the president is supposed to be the house/senate, which the republicans currently control. And most of the republicans there have made their bed with Trump, (you may notice the only GoP senators that stand up to Trump are the ones that are retiring and not planning on running for re-election.)
The Cohen revelation is just another in a long list of proven, illegal activity by trump, and just like the rest, the bulk of the republicans will sweep it under the rug and rely on their "news media that does not agree with us are liars with an agenda" tactic.
The common persons only recourse to a president that engages and gets away with tons of illegal activity? Contact your house and senator representatives and tell them trump's behavior is not acceptable, and if they do nothing, you will vote them out. Then tell all your friends who care to do the same.
And then of course, there is the midterm elections in November, but unless democrats + independents wins control of both house and senate, I would not hold your breath for an actual impeachment that results in trump vacating the office of POTUS.
The only reason Mueller investigation operates at all, is because there was actually a few republicans that actually cared to find out if Russia was involved in the results to 2016 campaign/election. The rest of the illegal shit trump may be involved in they would rather sweep under the rug while they push their own agenda on a very distracted and gullible public.
It is likely however that democrats will win the house, as I am sure there is more damaging evidence to come out about Trump in the next 3 months. However I fear that trump, like a cornered rat, will lash out, and try to recreate a 9/11 like event to grab the reins of power before democrats take control of the house in January.
Only a few things would result in trump actually being kicked out of the white house by republican leadership: (The ones who get to decide.)
- powerful evidence that one of trump's many mistresses was paid by trump to have an abortion and stay silent.
- went even more bat shit crazy and suddenly demanded every gun owner to give up guns and ban all guns.
- came out as gay, and followed up that announcement that "she" identifies as female and plans to have surgery to match how she feels on the inside.
- dies (the most likely scenario but still not very likely, the guy is 72, has terrible eating habits, barely sleeps, obese, and is very angry person that leads a very high stress life.)
Short of that, I do not see the republican leadership getting rid of him right away, but only after they lose control of both house and senate. (And then they would flee like rats from a sinking ship.) Trump in office is way too profitable for them and their benefactors to nut up and save the country from this mad man and the far right.
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I do agree with xenoview that from a religious freedom (or lack of religion for us atheist) standpoint, Pence is worse. However I think the odds that a nuclear armageddon if trump watched too much CNN one day, that would kill all of us, goes down with Pence as president over trump, so there is that.
You know your society is in trouble when you have complicated rules describing exactly when, how, and how much you can accept in bribes/graft.
Trump is the worst US president for at least the last 9 years IMO.
Unless he murders someone on camera he will not get impeached. As hateful and archaic as some of Pence's beliefs are, at least they are limited to religious delusion. I have other philosophical differences with him as will, but other then LGBTQ, and women's rights I don't have a moral objection to those issues. Point is while not great, he would be worlds better then Trump. However, it is a non issue both major parties suck, I only voted for Hillary because I knew Michigan and electoral would be close and at least she is normal politician liar and corruption not the horrible mess Trump is.
Oh I think impeachment is a real possibility if the House flips. That would give the opposition party control over committees and subpoena powers.
Just remember, impeachment does not mean automatic removal from office.
That is an important point CyberLN. Impeachment happen in the House, Removal happens in the Senate. Sometimes what we hear on television makes it mistakenly easy to believe that impeachment is removal.
Would that involve Trump losing the support of Republicans in the senate, if for instance he had been impeached? If so how likely would he (Trump) be to retain their support if he was impeached? The likelihood he has broken the law seems ever more real, it's not easy to see how he can avoid impeachment from an outside perspective, but how likely do Americans think it is he will be impeached? I mean even his most ardent supporters can't have failed to notice that he has a habit of courting disaster surely?
Impeachment to get that jack-ass religious absolutist as president? I hope not.
rmfr
I will be honest, given his vitriolic temper, narcissism, seething anger and resentment, and the pressures on him, I thought that Trump would have had a heart attack or stroke by now.
The noose is slowly tightening. Soon the rats will start abandoning ship to save themselves. The tipping point is getting closer. It might be tomorrow, it might be in 6 months.
In the end, I expect a last deranged tantrum, fueled by anger and narcissism. But I would prefer a stroke/heart attack before that.
"But I would prefer a stroke/heart attack before that."
Well perhaps I'm cruel, but I'd prefer the humility of indictment, and trial, followed by him being passed around the prison wing from lag to lag and being tossed around like some sort of dog toy. Though I realise it is unlikely he'll ever do any real jail time no matter what the outcome of his criminal behaviours.
If your argument is that a lot of people around him seem to be guilty of criminal behavior then you must be very glad Hillary Clinton isn't president.
Tired of hearing about Clinton. She isn't running for any office as far as I know. Get some new material.
If you have a problem with the fact that Hillary Clinton seems to be surrounded by criminals then you probably shouldn't support Trump.
It works both ways.
Always the tiresome obsession with Hillary.
Always the tiresome attempt at dismissing a valid point.
If being surrounded by people guilty of criminal and/or unethical behavior is something that gives you pause then you should be writing off Trump and Hillary pretty much equally. I wasn't around here in 2016 but if I had been you would have had no problem seeing me point out the massive pile of hypocrisy needed to support either of those walking piles of garbage.
Hillary is by no means perfect, but you have been duped, big time, if you think Hillary Clinton in any way compares to trump when it comes to criminal activity.
And yeah like everyone else is saying, why do so many people keep bringing Hillary up? She is not president, does Hillary Clinton make trump voters feel insecure? Is it perhaps because she won the popular vote by nearly 3 million votes? (perhaps more as more and more evidence of russian manipulation shows up?)
@blinknight
That's just it: It's not a valid point. It's a completely separate point, a separate accusation against a separate person. It's a separate discussion.
If Hillary had become president, was suspected of committing treason, etc, we might have been discussing her impeachment now. But she's not president.
If you insinst on bringing other unrelated corrupt/criminal politicians into the discussion, why is the focus on one individual?
There's got to be dozens of other politicians that are dirty as hell. But no, when Trump is criticized, someone always tries to derail the discussion with "but whaddabout Hillary?".
Start a separate thread called "Impeach Hillary" and rant about her there. I don't doubt that she's dirty and deserves jail time, but again, that's another discussion.
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