I'm sorry for everything. I see that many of you are either thinking I'm a troll or something. I'm not. And I am not religious. Thank you those who still stood up for me and understand the paint that I've been going through. I do not like being accused of things. And like I said, I am sorry for accusing Atheists for such things too. I just feel like I need answers, but I know there is none. I was not indoctrinated. I was not brainwashed. I didn't come here to insult all of you. I simply came here to show my personal feelings. But I guess feelings never matter. Just like everything else. I am indeed extremely depressed and am suffering from extreme hopelessness. I just wish someone out there who is not religious could help me. I am not trying to play victim, I do understand why people on this site hate me and accuse me of trolling. I just wish that someone out there would give me hope. A way for me to understand what makes life important other than the fact that we simply "exist". If life is about doing the best you could and be remembered, then I guess I'll live the rest of my life as a person who cannot accept reality. The thing is, I hate reality. Reality always manages to suck up everything that makes me happy and throws it away. I just wanted to seek a real reason to live happily. I find it hard to enjoy things when I know that in the end, it will just stop and be forgotten. And the idea of that thing being gone forever is saddening. I wanted to think more positive but yet I can't. I hope you all understand. If it's wrong for me to imagine living in a world where magic exists, that people have souls and everyone was simply more than just a bunch of meat and sperms, then I guess that my future is quite the sad one. And I can accept that. But the more I accept it, the more I start to hate myself as a person. I just can't find a way for me to feel satisfied with myself without either seeking help or have this feeling of hopelessness crawl all over my back. I just don't see how enjoying life while it happens is satisfying since all it does for me is think more of what happens if it's all gone. It's very hard for me to just enjoy things as they are without expecting something more "meaningful" than just accepting it as it is. For those of you who read this, please respond and I hope you understand what I'm going through more.
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I'm not a counselor but I think you should seek out the services of one. Assuming you are living in a western country:be honest with them.
I don't think what you are going through is healthy, you should do your best to do something about it. Which I realize might be hard because of the mental/emotional state you find yourself in. A nasty catch-22.
Please get some help, Mikey. I know you're feeling so low that even showering or cleaning your teeth doesn't seem worth the effort, but you need to get some help. If you don’t, it will just get worse and worse until one day you day you don't even get out of bed anymore. I've been there. Please, get some help, mate.
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=the+black+dog+depression&client=table...
@ Mikey
Ive suffered from depression most of my adult life (Very common in creative people I am told) and know where you are coming friom. Its a dark place you are in. However there is hope, I managed (with professional help) and a series of coping mechanisms to live a full and hopeful life.
The Black Dog still sniffs around the corners and occasionally settles down in my lap but I have coping mechanisms that banish it. You cant get out on your own. You need help Mikey.
My step son was in the same place a few years ago and we, with the counsellor got him through it and he is happy, with a job, clean and playing computer games all bloody weekend LOL.
See a doctor today. Get a referral.
Hi Michael ~ If you Google "depression crisis hotline" you can find several sites that offer not only phone numbers to call, but lots of information about depression, and even private chats & texting options to communicate with a counselor or advocate. I hope you do that.
I think it's really awesome how the people here are reaching out to you and encouraging you. Please take their helpful advice and find a counselor to talk with. Almost everyone I know (including me) has found help from counseling.
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Hi Micheal,
I just wanted to say I hope you find peace whatever path you choose. Atheism is not for everyone. To be honest I am undecided myself. I come a moderate Muslim background and no religion can answer my questions in relation to the injustices that they all have. Therefore they can’t be from God. However I don’t know if I’m already to turn my back altogether. I hope you find peace. Please reach out for help
Monday, great response. Atheism is a world view with a very bleak future for it’s individual adherents. It doesn’t offer anything but the opposite of something, which in this case turns out to be nothing. Michael I suggest you find meaning in the One who gives you purpose because He created you for a purpose. Not an easy thing to do amidst so much confusion created by the purporters of the dark world view offered in this chat. Seek God (genuinely) and you will find Him.
@Walter/Inexorable Again
"Atheism is a world view with a very bleak future for it’s individual adherents"
I just adore being told I have a world view and what it is by someone I've never met. It's like being told I like pink and frills and wear high heels because I'm a woman.
" purporters of the dark world view"
That's us, folks. Here we are:
https://youtu.be/eKvX04_6DKY
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Yep thats me...
@Old Man
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Not collecting stamps isn't much of a hobby either, but this doesn't mean our lives are meaningless without philately.
Delusional superstion may provide succour for the gullible, but I'd prefer reality.
And atheism is not a worldview, it's the lack or absence of a belief in a deity or deities. No amount of trolling from you will change this.
Walter Rivera,
Hasn't it occurred to you that an everlasting life might just be the ultimate exercise in total meaningless existence? I see a lot of problems there because I actually gave it some serious thought. Atheists may have the best deal in town! A finite life may be the only life that can have real meaning.
More to the point, it's not about who's offering what. It's about truth. You don't get to check off some box on a wish list! You take what truth has to offer or you retreat into a fantasy world. I'm sorry that the truth is inconvenient for many people.
Many of us have genuinely sought out "God," only to realize later that we were only living in a fantasy world. Some of the most effective and knowledgeable atheists were once among the most devout believers. Dan Barker, who wrote many of the songs and music so popular among conservative Christians, once hopped fences in Mexico to seek out converts. Are you even half the devout believer that he once was? Dan eventually (after a couple of years of painful reflection and study) saw through the illusion and eventually became one of the leading atheist activists in the United States.
Walter
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Atheism is a world view with a very bleak future for it’s individual adherents
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Atheism is not about having no values, it's not about being worthless as an individual, (or group), it's not dark, it's not believing in nothing. If the future you refer to is after death . . . no one KNOWS what will happen then. After death, I imagine will affect me, just as before birth, before I was conceived in my mother's womb affects me now. I did not exist then. I know what that means to me now.
Before I existed, I had no pain, no worries, no nothing, and it mattered not to anyone. After I die, I see it as being the same: non-existence, with no pain, no fear, no worries. I have no reason to let what being dead means, to have greater affect on me now, than what the state of affairs was before my conception has on me right now.
But while you are alive, you have lots to live for: pleasure, learning, relationships, fun, creativity, leaving a legacy, enjoyment. Just set your mind to it. Things that are amazing, marvellous, beautiful . . . are all part of the atheist experience. I can say, because I'm one; and there are plenty of others on this site, just as happy, to be alive, and not worried by any god considerations. If this is the only life you get, then it makes sense to make the most of it; not waste it; be content; be a good person; seek truth; find what you enjoy.
Seeking "God", is a way of presuming the answer before you get it. I recommend a person to seek the TRUTH. I could just as easily say: 'Seek reasons to reject "God", (genuinely), and you will find them.' Then you can reject the idea of any gods.
The problem becomes how do you seek truth?
I think I'd recommend that Michael seek professional help, and that he deliberately seek a secular helper. To Michael :-
You are not worthless . . . you are doing something valuable and worthwhile, by writing in this web site. And why is it something valuable and worthwhile? It's something valuable and worthwhile because you are stimulating all of us to discuss, to swap ideas, to explore, to seek truth. In my "book", that's something valuable and worthwhile. By doing something valuable and worthwhile makes YOU something valuable and worthwhile, Michael. Keep it up.
Very well said, Mutorc. *standing applaud*
FYI: I am moving this string to the Debate room today.
I don’t know what that means. Sorry, i’m new to this site.
If you don’t know what it means, you’re more than welcome to ask.
The thing about atheism is that it says you can’t pick what makes you feel good you have to pick what you to follow what there is evidence of. I can’t necessarily fault that logic. However if there is still something missing or it is not enough for you to know that we live and die and that’s it then maybe there is a role for spirituality for you? If that means being a good person and not hating or discrimination against anyone which is what religion tells us to do a lot of the time. So I don’t think it’s wrong to ask or to be confused. If God is real then he will understand. One of my favourite writers Nawal Elsaadawi says god is not a book god is justice.. all religions are oprressive but at times they can be a force
Of good too. That’s not to say atheism is bad or atheists are bad.. we all find our own truths.. good luck I am still searching. I think the key is not to demean one another but love and support one another on our journey. Debate can also be respectful . You aren’t not alone many people are searching.
Nice post, Monday - and I agree with you that Mikey won't find the reassurance he's looking for here on an atheist forum. Just one thing, I can't discern what you meant by " The thing about atheism is that it says you can’t pick what makes you feel good you have to pick what you to follow what there is evidence of". Could you clarify, please?
@Monday
Hello, Monday. Welcome to the AR. Great having you with us, and thank you for your help with Mike. Nice post.
@Monday1982: being a good person and not hating or discrimination against anyone which is what religion tells us to do a lot of the time.
I have to disagree with you there. I think religion has always been one of the most divisive forces in human society and the biggest source of conflict and discrimination. Look at Hindus and Muslims in India, Christians and Jews in Europe, Jews and Muslims in the Middle East.... Even within Christianity, hatred among the various sects has historically resulted in terrible violence and cruelty. That's continued in modern times. Look at Catholics and Protestants in Ireland, and the Church-instigated massacres in Rwanda.
For people to live together in peace, we need to focus more on what makes us the same. And the thing that unites us above all else is our mortality. I'm going to die. Forever. Knowing that makes me profoundly aware of the importance of my life and other people's lives. This isn't a dress rehearsal for the after-life. This is it.
Hey Michael, hope you are feeling a little better today. Please ignore walter, his only concern is to use your post to proselytize his belief system. Sad, but true. The only hope anyone can give you is based in reality...which you have to define. In any event, several things are true, you are going to live and you are going to die...and that you are the one that has to make things happen in your life. My suggestion to you, is to not miss a moment and get busy living, and find happiness in the things you encounter. PM me if you need to talk.
Hey there, Mikey. Dude, I really do hate that you are having these problems. Depression sucks. And, unfortunately, there is no easy way out of it. I would like to restate what others have said and strongly suggest you seek professional counselling. If you are skeptical, I understand. I had a rough period in my life a few years ago, but I never believed in going to a psychiatrist or therapist. I always believed I could handle my own problems. Well, it finally got to a point where I had exhausted all my usual coping mechanisms and thought I was going nuts. At that point I reluctantly sought professional counselling. It was one of the most difficult decisions I have ever made. And at first I was very reluctant to open up to the therapist, even though I was there on my own accord. But - guess what - after a few sessions, I actually started feeling better and was able to sort out the issues that were troubling me. Turned out to be one of the best decisions I ever made.
You have a great deal of support here, Mikey, but there is only so much we can do for you on this site. Please seek some professional help. And we are here whenever you need to vent. Take care, buddy.
Mikey, the one thing everybody here is saying is to see a counselor. Tin-man said it so well that there is nothing left for me to say! If you are at the bottom of the well then why not give it a shot even if you don't like the idea? You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Think of how happy you will make us if you later report back and say that things are looking up!
Hi Sushisnake.
I mean from my understating of atheism thus far .. just bc you feel upset that god or your religion is false it doesn’t mean you should suddenly start believing in God. Atheism says that you need to prove what you believe a holy book is not enough.
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@Monday
Re: " Atheism says that you need to prove what you believe a holy book is not enough."
I see where you're coming from, there, but to me, atheism just means I don't believe in gods. I don't believe in souls or afterlifes or supernatural things, either, but that’s in addition to my atheism- kind of an optional extra. A lot of atheists DO believe in supernatural things- just not in gods. Think of the atheist ladies who believe in psychics and the atheist gentlemen who believe in supersmart visitors from outer space. They’re atheists- but they believe in supernatural things.
I actually don't require theists to proof their god's existence to me. Not most of the time. Most believers have a gentle, tolerant, inclusive sort of faith. It does no harm to them or others. The god they envision is a benevolent, loving god. I'll gently question their beliefs, but I dont go hard on them. But there are other stripes of faith- harsh, cruel, intolerant and exclusive- that I will and do demand proof of, because those kinds of beliefs do real harm to the individual holding them and others. I will undermine and attack those kinds of beliefs at every opportunity, like Kali opening a can of whoop ass on demons.
Thanks permalink n sushisnake your kind words r very encouraging
. I am indeed extremely depressed and am suffering from extreme hopelessness. I just wish someone out there who is not religious could help me. I am not trying to play victim,
YOU ARE PLAYING VICTIM. Depressed people do not sit at home and whine and cry on websites unless they are "PLAYING VICTIM."
NO ONE GIVES YOU HOPE: This is the cry of a victim looking for a rescuer. HOPE COMES FROM WITHIN. Of course if you knew that you would not be depressed. You would be out there living your life.
"A way for me to understand what makes life important "
Life is not important. Life does not give a damn about you. Life creates life to feed on life. Life exists for life. You are simply food for life. If you die, you feed life. If you live, you feed life. Life is fulfilled by the fact you are here. You are the meaning of life. The real question is, "Now that you have life, what will you do to bring meaning to yourself." Currently the meaning of your life is to whine and cry on the internet in Atheist forums and then whine some more when we do not step up to rescue you. If you are depressed, get up off your butt and do something about it. EXERCISE is the number one cure for all depression. (Look it up,)
I just wanted to seek a real reason to live happily.
That's exactly what I told you to do in my last post. Keep whining and crying on internet sites until you find a real rescuer to take care of you. You can spent the rest of your real life in a pathological double bind relationship where you can play the victim and she or he can be the rescuer. If I was a rescuer I would be begging for your phone number so you could call me and we could both wallow in emotion.
I hate reality. Reality.
How can you hate something that you can't even see. That is like accusing atheists of hating God. It just makes no sense at all. You can not hate something that is not there. Anyone with your reality would hate it as well. I would sure hate sitting at home every day, sucking down cokes and eating chips as I whined to strangers in an Atheist forum on the internet. I would be bored out of my mind. But, each to his own, you enjoy, I've got stuff to do...;
I just can't find a way for me to feel satisfied with myself without either seeking help or have this feeling of hopelessness crawl all over my back. (VERIFIED AGAIN) You are a professional victim. You need to find a rescuer. You do not know how to be a person without someone to take care of you. I'm betting those are not cokes you are downing as you type but beers.
It's very hard for me to just enjoy things as they are without expecting something more "meaningful" than just accepting it as it is. LIFE IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR HAPPINESS - YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR HAPPINESS. That thing that is more meaningful must come from you. There is nothing out there in the world, that you can put in here, that is going to make you a better person.
You become a better person by doing something to become a better person. Whining and crying will not get you there. Having others take care of you will not get you there.
Well I'm inclined to agree, even though your post may contain some harsh facts they are nonetheless facts, and as you say hating the truth because it unpalatable is pretty senseless. If Mike is depressed then religion is a band aid at best, and an attempt at delusion won't help long term. If he really thinks he can't cope then the best course is to seek professional help for depression, and this will help him come to terms with both his depression and his realisation that religions claims are not supported by any proper objective evidence.
No one is saying this to Mike to make him feel bad, and to be fair if atheism bothers him this much then perhaps an atheist orientated forum was the wrong place to come and complain about it, as I'm not sure what else he could reasonably expect from people than the truth. His cause hasn't been helped of course by one or maybe two fairly moronic trolls showing up and pretending to fight his corner. This may have muddied the water so to speak, but people are not telling him the truth just to make him feel bad.
Michael,
"I just feel like I need answers, but I know there is none."
As it says in Ecclesiastes 5:18 (CEB) = "18 This is the one good thing I’ve seen: it’s appropriate for people to eat, drink, and find enjoyment in all their hard work under the sun during the brief lifetime that God gives them because that’s their lot in life."
Do the best you can with what you have because at the end of the road you will die like everyone before you has and there's no coming back from the grave. And that's it.
Very harsh cognostic... the man is seeking help and advise .. you can say what you think without demeaning him 8
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