Hello everybody,
First my apologies for my english. It's not my native language so I may have some issues with expressing some subtleties. I also apology if I'm not in the right place. It's my firt time here.
You've read the title of my post. It has been a long time since I've been feeling this.
Not that I believe in backworld or any god. I don't. I never had. As far as I remember, I didn't even thought that a big fat red-dressed white-beared man could go through a chemney (that we didn't have at my home).
But I've always had a hard time defining myself as "non-something". That is what atheism is: non-theism.
Of course, history is written by winners, and christianity obviously became the center of the world for many centuries. The "normal" behaviour is to believe and so, the abnormal is to not believe. Ergo a-theism.
This is a pervert way to labelled. It brings its own judgemental underlying meaning: you're atheist, you lack something.
I don't. I don't lack anything. I mean, I lack a lot of things, but not THIS. It's not a crack in me.
For all I know, those who believe in any non-physical existence are lacking common sense or self-honesty.
It's also a way for theists to label atheists as another type of religion, because of course, they can't believe that anyone would not try to shape the world from their fears.
This being said, I know that when I talk to a theist, she or he always tries to label me as theist, agnostic or atheist. A more mischevious one than me would say it's a way for them to overcome their fears...
Plus sometimes, with some person, it's easier to say "I'm an atheist" than to suffer their proselytic speech. At least, that something they understand even though they hate it.
So I'm not an atheist, but I am. It has now become a beacon, a sign of recognition.
PS: I know I'm lucky enough to live in a country where I can be openly realistic without being persecute.
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And welcome,
Apathist? Atheists are what religionists call non-believers.
Welcome!
Welcome JeanL!
I found your introduction interesting. Just out of curiosity, where are you from?
I can understand why you do not want to be labelled as something. Being a "theist" or an "atheist" has quite a bit of baggage associated with it.
Sometimes you may ask yourself: "even if I am skeptical/unconvinced in the validity of religion(s) or the idea of an intelligent creator, am I wrong for being a minority?". You begin to question your thoughts and ideas, because the vast majority of people in the world disagree with your logic.
Just continue to live life believing what you do, and you do not have to tell anyone that you are atheist/agnostic/theist. If you ever feel that you really belong to one of those categories, then go for it.
Ratburn
Thank you.
I'm from France.
Actually, I sometimes wonder myself if there's any chance of something existing beyond reality. The answer is always "yes, there is a chance".
But it's one chance on a peta-millions. So until proven wrong, I might think this against the vast majority.
As Richard Dawkins said, the vast majority is wrong anyway, even those who believe in the great juju on the mountain, because they all believe in different things. Plus, most people don't really believe in god or gods, they just hope it were true and don't think about it any further.
You really said it all in the very last couple of sentences. Were you to be on the streets of some Islamic country just saying these things aloud you would be jailed and possibly "reeducated" or even killed.
You are atheist by virtue of the fact that you are not religious. If it were a few hundred years ago you could be killed for not being a Christian.
You are a heathen, a non-believer, a blasphemer, a pagan, an infidel, a skeptic, a heretic and "yes," an atheist. Atheist is what the religions of the world call you whether or not you identify with the rest of us. Whether or not you "agree" to be called "Atheist." you can be killed as one for expressing your opinion.
@JeanL
1) Atheism is not a belief in any way.
2) You're right "atheism" is a label given to people that don't believe in the bullshit that the believers profess. It's not like we have a belief that there isn't a god. We just don't have any evidence of a god.....and neither do the believers.
I regard myself as a regular person that doesn't believe in a god. Believers label me as an atheist.
If your considering the evidence of god or gods then you are eventually using your reason faculties which derive from a belief. To say that you don`t believe in God or Gods, you then have to be drawing conclusion from a reductionist argument Which entails beliefs. regardless if you recognize it or not.
Oh FUCKING BULLSHIT AG. That is bullshit and you well fucking know it. Not believing is not a belief. That is just fucking stupid. Sure I draw a conclusion. I draw a conclusion that there is no easter bunny, no tooth fairy, no santa clause, and no god because they have the same amount and kind of evidence of being true.
The rejection of a claim is not the same as making a contrary claim. Therefore the theistic claim a god exists can rejected without any burden of proof. This type of religious apologetics as you say, is moronic. It's very difficult for me to believe theists who make this claim are being sincere, and don't really see how absurdly stupid it is.
sounds like an extra-stupid version of presuppositionalism
"If your considering the evidence of god or gods then you are eventually using your reason faculties which derive from a belief. To say that you don`t believe in God or Gods, you then have to be drawing conclusion from a reductionist argument Which entails beliefs. regardless if you recognize it or not."
Atheism as defined by the Oxford English dictionary
Noun
Disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.
I'll accept their definition before yours, sorry.
So the lack of a belief is in fact a ...belief? I have little respect for the way religious apologetics do mental cartwheels to rationalise their irrational beliefs, but this latest fad of trying to reverse the meaning of the lack of a belief in a deity to mean a belief in it's non-existence is truly moronic. Also could you present your three best pieces of 'evidence' for the existence of a deity. Also do you have separate beliefs for every deity you don't believe in then?
One more time and FYI, you are is not abbreviated as your.
@Agnostic Believer: "then have to be drawing conclusion from a reductionist argument Which entails beliefs"
All of the so-called ontological arguments by people like Anselm and Aquinas are reductionist and analytical. They take the idea of god apart, link it to some baseless assumptions (i.e., beliefs), then put them back together again and pull the rabbit out of the hat.
If you can only experience god directly as a whole, why do Christian apologists waste so much time with these logic games?
You should read "the god delusion" by Richard Dawkins of you haven't already. Embrace it. Normalize it. Eventually (hopefully) we won't need it.
I don't like labels but if it has to be then "atheist" is the way to go for me unless there's a stronger word?
@Koukla: "unless there's a stronger word?"
How about "sane"?
@Algebe "sane" sums it up well
"unless there's a stronger word?"
"Rigid Atheist"
there you have it koukla...
just to break the ice..heheh.. XD
Anti-theist.
"I don't like labels but if it has to be then "atheist" is the way to go for me unless there's a stronger word?"
I prefer the positive - humanist.
Unfortunately people react negatively to any label, however positive. Non-believers, freethinkers, Skeptics-in-the-Pub and Brights are all positive and I have never heard a single good objection or reason for rejecting any of those labels - and I have read mountains of objections. Secular is positive and inclusive of religionists but is only required while religion persists. Apathist is one who couldn't care less whether there's a god or a creator or none - that covers most non-believers. Atheist and anti-theist are theological terms.
'Humanist Republic' might be less popular as many atheists manage to reject the epithet 'Humanist', or see 'atheist' as somehow more exact or more positive. Some people don't realise they can be humanist (in deeds) and not Humanist (members of a Humanist organisation).
@ZeffD
*LANGUAGE WARNING: POST CONTAINS RELIGIOUS WORD.*
Amen to that, ZeffD. Humanism's aims bridges faith - non faith lines. It's the common ground between us and the majority of people of faith. Humanism sounds a lot less scary to a full on theist than godless atheism, too.
Hey ZeffD, I don't know which I prefer. Even "apathist" doesn't cover what I feel. These terms do pull me in should I come across an article or a talk and I'm thankful we have outlets such as AR and others.