I have no clue if there's an afterlife or even if such a thing is possible. I have hope that there *could* be *something* more after death. My life is crap and it's one thing that helps me not kill myself.
On other sites I see atheists laughing at and putting down anyone who thinks like I do.
What is the problem? I don't think the problems of this world should be forgotten about for pie in the sky, if that's the issue. It's just a private hope that helps keep me going. So why does it matter?
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Well at the end of the day no one really knows. I believe it to be highly unlikely, but thats just my opinion, and even though we may agree on there being no god we dont have to agree on absolutely everything.
But more importantly, the fact that we cant count on devine help dosent mean we shouldnt get real help at times. Huge problems are pretty hard to fix... But i find that most can be broken down into a bunch of smaller problems(more manageable). Try changing little things for the better, it adds up.
And get help buddy... Even if you think there's another life, this is the one you can be sure exists, do whatever you have to do (within the confines of the law) to enjoy this one.
Thanks for the kind words and advice. I like hearing that atheists don't have to agree on everything to get along, because it seems like atheists can be not so nice even to each other when it comes to speculation. The thing is, I too find the existence of an afterlife unlikely, against the odds, but it's the possibility of such that intritigues me. You see, I'm a creative, liberal arts type of person who writes fiction, so my mind is imaginative. It's like on Star Trek where Kirk tells Spock that the emotional, illogical part of us comes with the package of being fully human. My real issue, now that I've thought about it more, is that atheists can be extremely harsh when imaginative, speculative things are mentioned. That's why I feel isolated from my fellow atheists, because I'm much more creative than logical. It feels like I'm a pariah, even though I too don't believe in gods, ghosts, telekinesis, etc. Now, I know that atheism is about logically rejecting the improbable. I totally get it. But it feels like atheists always go for the jugular even among themselves and ostracizing speculative types like me. It's feeling like I don't have a place with my own kind that makes me feel depressed and suicidal.
I'm missing something here.
How does believing there's an afterlife keep one from committing suicide?
That's an excellent question a fellow atheist should ask. I too thought about exactly that before you posted your reply. It's actually not the afterlife itself, it's the *possibilty* that there are more mysterious and amazing things than we can currently grasp. I understand that this takes a step dangerously close to the irrational and supernatural, but it's just how my mind works because I'm a creative, speculative type. Like how Einstein said that imagination is important. I'm not saying such a thing as an afterlife exists, just wondering if such a thing is somehow possible, despite the odds against it. It's like in Star Trek when they say that the idea of warp speed was laughed at before it became a reality. And people used to say humans would never fly, etc. I have experienced atheists being extremely harsh with me, even though I made it clear that I was just speculating. Some of today's woo could be tomorrow's reality. I feel like I have no place among my own people, and the isolation depresses me to the point where I want to say fuck it and exit life.
"My life is crap and it's one thing that helps me not kill myself."
Believing there is a much better life after this one does not help to not kill yourself, quite the contrary.
Unless you unconsciously JUST HOPE there is an afterlife and do not truly believe it.
The usual criticism is directed at those that believe it or just think they do.
I hope I get inhuman powers every single day, everybody hopes for things, some realistic some not, few get criticized for that.
So don't mix up the hope with belief please.
Hope is what you wish and it is not effected by evidence, it is built on the acceptance of doubt.
(eg: i hope one day i would become a space ship captain but doubt that will ever happen)
Believe is accepting it without any doubt, even if it is effected by evidence.
(eg: I believe in the entire bible to be the word of god, even though it has been proven to be the most unreliable book on earth)
That's a very good point, and I must say that it's hope that I have, not belief. To believe blindly in an afterlife without evidence is, of course, irrational. Which is why the theory of multiverse perplexes me in the sense that proponents defend belief in it as rational. How so when there is zero evidence for it? I digress, but my point is that yes, I agree with your distinction between hope and belief.
Glad I helped.
It is also nice to know the difference between:
Opinion
Belief
Knowing
Fact
Hope
Check them out on google, it is worth to know if you happen in a discussion.
You would be surprised how many people mix these concepts up when they talk.
Very good, I will do that. My hope ( see how I use it? :) is that I make friends here, which will help with my depression. I made you as a friend, so a good start. Is there a place on this site where people go to chat about life, not just debate.
Thanks.
Try the atheist hub, or Private message someone on his interests(check their profile)
I hope there is not an afterlife, certainly not if I have to meet my parents again, they hated me and made my life a misery while they were alive. I just want to die and become a part of history(even though nobody will remember me)
There is no need to be scared of death, unless you are religious:)
I've thought about being with my relatives for eternity. I can't stand them for more than a few hours as it is.
Seriously, though, I don't think our personalities somehow survive brain death. I think of brain damage and how personality is altered. Logically, damage the whole thing and there is no more personality. This makes me paranoid of brain injury, but I accept it as reality.
But is there something that somehow survives? Sounds like woo, I know, but I have hope, not belief. The Universe is so vast and strange that nothing can be completely ruled out, like the FSM and his noodly appendages. Today's woo might be tomorrow's fact.
I like how you say you'll become a part of history. Certainly we remain a part of the Universe itself.
Anyhow, welcome to the forum and thanks for the polite response. I too am new here.
@ Puzzled Primate
Since you talk about having depression, I thought I should mention a couple of things for people who suffer from depression.
There is no shame in seeking professional help.
Getting help, is still wrongly thought of as shameful. It is a lot more common these days than most people think.
Sometimes non-believers also fear that they will get a religious therapist and that is of course an understandable fear. There is a specific project in the US for exactly that problem: https://www.seculartherapy.org/
Thank you for your advice. I will consider getting help. I've always been a do-it-yourself person, so it will take some time to convince myself to take action.
I do hope not to get a religious therapist. I hadn't thought of that, but it could be an issue. I'll make it clear at the first session that I'm not religious.
There are things to live for, it's true. It's hard to see them when my mind is filled with depression and self-pity.
What helps is when I get out in nature and when I look up at a blue sky or a starry night. It reminds me that we're part of an intricate planet wide web.
It's so bizarre how we got here, how we're the one ape that can contemplate its own death, as far as we know. There's always that question of why. Is it simply inevitable that such a thing would happen in our vast universe?
Have you had all physio causes for depression ruled out? For instance, is your thyroid working properly? There are many illnesses that cause it and a therapist can't help you with those.
Yeah, that's a good point. I was actually planning on scheduling a physical tomorrow. I'll let my physician know that I'm concerned about depression.
Puzzled Primate - "I have no clue if there's an afterlife or even if such a thing is possible. I have hope that there *could* be *something* more after death."
I don't think it is unusual for people who have recently left religion to still cling to some of its promises. Often times people post here about how they are still living in terrible fear of hell after leaving Christianity. At least you don't seem to have that hanging over your head.
It didn't take me a long time to get over the fear of hell, which is surprising because my parents and grandparents used it to threaten me when I was little and misbehaved. I had nightmares about it.
At 16, I rejected it because, if god is love and the smartest thing there is, how could such punishment exist?
I know that a lot of people can't get past the fear, not without a lot of work. It's terrible that parents traumatize their kids with something that requires therapy to overcome. It's like giving your kids a disease.
I still have fear about hell on occasion, but it passes quickly. I know it's a threat ignorant people use because they've got nothing else. I've saved articles about why hell is b.s. and I read them when the fear gets to me. Maybe I should pass these on to believers. Maybe I should start a thread on Atheist Republic with links to those articles.
I don't know if I'll ever be able to give up the hope of an afterlife. Time will tell.
My favorite Carl Sagan quote:
“I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But as much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking.”
http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/26309-i-would-love-to-believe-that-when-...
My thought:
Believing in an afterlife is a pretty benign concept and empowers a lot of people to be good people.
Problems start then forcing ones' beliefs on others will improve their afterlife experience.
That thinking leads people to blow up shoppers in produce markets in some parts of the earth.
Food for thought. Thanks. :)
I too am concerned about religious extremism. It's a touchy subject that I'm reluctant to bring up. I'm not seeking controversy, so all I'll say is I share your view and leave it at that.
I recommend the YouTube channel Atheism Is Unstoppable for an in-depth analysis of the matter.
@Puzzled Primate
"It's feeling like I don't have a place with my own kind that makes me feel depressed and suicidal."
My observation after reading your posts: You appear to be honest, intelligent, contemplative and introspective. That is a rare combination and it's all positive.
Finding common ground with others on one or two of the above attributes is doable. Finding like minded people with all those attributes is damn nigh impossible. You are not a herd animal. It seems to me that you have more cause to celebrate rather than to be depressed.
Thank you for your kind words. They reassure me that I have a place here - on this forum and in this world - among friends. :)
And:
P.P.
If you are depressed due to neurotransmitter imbalances meds can help.
If you are depresses due to life being a mess I hope you find a friend and support.
Today is my 3112nd Tuesday since birth (thank you Siri).
I plan to savor it.
Happy birthday. Today is my 114th day of being 40. (Sounds like a potential movie - Being 40.) My brain thinks I'm 20, so I'll go with that. ;)
Does it matter if there is an afterlife or not? No. What matters is now. Do what is best for you now, don't wait for your death to be what you've been looking forward to your whole life, just live now. Oh, Nothing no. I realize now that I just said YOLO in a nutshell.
I hope I do not veer to far off track here , but I would like to address the imaginative mind theme. Three of my favorite writers are atheists - Kurt Vonnegut , Salman Rushdie, Douglass Adams. They are also the most likely to incorporate supernatural or incredibly unlikely science {Adams} into their tales. Genies, ghosts , phantoms ,grateful flying dolphins, tap dancing farting genius aliens. Where would we be without dreamers and tale spinners?
When asked the question if i want to live forever, i don't, i would love to live longer, for maybe milions of years, to find all the unknown, but at one point in eternal life you will get bored...what type of life is that... People fear death, then eternal life was created by man, noone knows what happens when you die, but being bored out of my mind is not something i would be excited for.
Just like a few above said, who cares about the next life, you have this one now, enjoy it.
Hello Puzzled Primate! I thought you might find the following publication quite interesting:
http://www.simulation-argument.com/simulation.html
It deals with the possibility of us living in a simulation (not just plugged in as in The Matrix). If this were true, then afterlife could mean copying your data to a new simulation. Though, you would have to wonder what the criteria for selecting to copy someone would be.