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Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
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Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
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" I've asked is it a confirmed delusion. I've let it bounce around in my head for almost 2 years now."
IS WHAT A DELUSION! How is it you keep missing the main point of every single conversation you have had with atheists? ATHEISM CAN NOT BE ANY KIND OF DELUSION. IT ASSERTS NOTHING. YOU CAN NOT BOUNCE IT AROUND IN YOUR MIND. THERE IS NOTHING TO BOUNCE AROUND. Atheism is a position on the argument for the existence of God or gods. Atheists do not believe these arguments have met there burden of proof. There is no good reason to believe in God or gods and you have been shown this from every single post you have made.
"I was very curious to find information that anyone had to take a position of non-belief. "
What information do you have to take a position of not believing unicorns are real?
@Great Hope
"I was very curious to find information that anyone had to take a position of non-belief."
It was not any information that led me down the path to become an atheist, it was the lack of information. I searched for over forty years for any signs or proof that anything spiritual existed, and I found nothing.
I am not attempting to sell you on atheism (what a weird idea), but rather the folly in accepting unevidenced assumptions.
I wonder how accurate infotmation is gathered about 12 Step programs when no records are kept, no attendance rosters, everyone on first name basis?
Since I have never used such services, but going by what I have heard, I would say none. All records are just made up.
rmfr
Been there, done that arakish.
You wander in, you attend the meeting, you never give out your name, and when you feel like it, you wander out.
If you decide to join "the program", then the organizers will give you information and a sponsor, and hope you show up for the next meeting. IMO it is reasonable that the organizers can keep data on who joins the program, but the number of people who wander into and out of meetings is at best a head count.
And from my personal experience, there are many who regularly attend meetings, but never go the extra step in asking to join the program.
@ David Killens
Interesting. Sounds almost like the "gatherings" they had in the mental institute doing the same thing. My problem is that I never said anything in those meetings/gatherings. Additionally, I was forced to attend those things. As far as I was concerned, the head master (or whatever those "orderlies" are called that oversee those things) had already told them I lost my family and went through an addiction hell.
Hell, it took a year before I would even speak with my assigned psychiatrist. I had lost my family and the Empty Nest of home drove me completely wonko. As far as I was concerned, my entire family had abandoned me. All my neighbors abandoned me. Why? Because I was atheist and they were theists? As far as I was concerned, abandon me, good, I don't need anyone.
But, ultimately, I was wrong. I did need others. It just took me quite some time to trust my psychiatrist was as atheist as I was. Something I did not encounter elsewhere. Then I got out and found that theist organization known as the IRS had taken everything just for their money.
That is proof the IRS is theistic. If the IRS was atheist, they would have realized what I had gone through and taken more compassion than any theist organization. Theistic organizations are concerned with only one thing, how much money they can rob from the people. Theistic organization could care less about what someone has gone through. I mean, the only help I got was through a homeless shelter. Thankfully, that homeless shelter may have been based on Christianity, but they at least honored and accepted and respected my atheism. Yes, I was forced to attend the three "chapel" services a week (Wed evening, Sun morning and evening), BUT they never forced their religion onto me. They simply discussed it. They even accepted my arguments as to why I could not accept the Bible and the religions based upon it. If only more such theistic organizations were as compassionate… Thus, I shall admit that not ALL theistic organizations are cruel and heartless in how they handle those are forcefully made homeless. Just that they are so few compared to the whole.
Think I have ranted enough.
rmfr
It's anonymous. No attendance, no rosters, no records. They do have donuts and coffee. Anytime you want some free donuts and coffee, just go hang out in a meeting.
Wow. Cool. I love coffee and donuts.
rmfr
Mmh I don't like donuts and I only take coffee occasionally.
I wonder why AA is required at all if a deity is the root cause of alcoholics turning their lives around and controlling their addiction?
In fact I wonder why a deity cures alcoholics when it allowed them in the first place. Why not preempt the farce of group therapy and all the misery that prompted it by not allowing alcoholism in the first place.
This is the cue for more of GH's desperate rationalisations.
@GreatHope
Can we agree that addicts come from all walks in life?
If atheists can use AA, Na or what have you does it mean a God helped them? Atheists will not resort to believe in god in those programs...the higher power they might be making contact with is their own innate powers they have let go of along the way or a version of a higher power that has nothing to do with a god or theistic beliefs.
According to your logic, then can we assume that there was no divine intervention for atheists and that it constitutes evidence that there is no god? Nice try but I think this argument is as weak as the one you presented.
In Spirit: "Can we agree that addicts come from all walks in life?"
Re-Word: No walk of life is free from addiction.
rmfr
EDIT: again fixed a misdirect sorry In Spirit
Furthermore, religion itself is an addiction. Atheism is the cure.
rmfr
Opioid addiction has something like a 5 % success rate with replacement therapy, addiction houses, etc.
There’s a root that comes from Africa with an alkaloid in it called “ibogaine”. It’s illegal in the states. Causes heart attack in like 1 % of those who take it.
Clinics exist in Canada and Mexico (to name a couple places) where ibogaine is administered. The success rate is 95 %. Addicts recover from their addiction without withdrawal symptoms. The alkaloid heals damaged and dependent opioid receptors in the brain.
A buddy of mine is three months clean after visiting Mexico and “tripping” on ibogaine. He was addicted to opioids for about 10 years.
For Atheists, the action of this hallucinagin may not be “digestible”. It is a 12 hour waking dream with a very “spiritual” slant to it. People who take the drug go through an intense life review, with exposure to spirit guides, after life views, etc.
It’s an amazing drug and I couldn’t be happier for my friend. He was heading towards an early death and today he’s more alive than ever.
Check out a short video on ibogaine
https://youtu.be/0uQ9JCUincw
@ Ratty
Naltrexone has a much better success rate, has no side effects and no "spiritual side" in dreams. However does need to be taken with a mental health counselling plan...as all addicts have a mental health issue or issues that need sorting to stay clean or most will just substitute another drug or revert to the original.
As a muso I was exposed to all sorts of people on just about every drug ever....we used to say we would would walk past several geniuses in the gutter on the way to a gig. Fantastic gifted musicians who couldn't cope with the fact of living. There was not the resources or the drugs like Naltrexone and similar that there are now.
Having said that I did do the whole "coyote dreaming' thing with the Yacqui... interesting vivid experience. Nothing I wanted to repeat. So called "hard drugs" never appealed. I gave up Mary Jane in my 20's as I couldn't play straight if I smoked, cocaine just gave me a terrible headache and opioids did nothing but make me constipated. Not worth that mild buzz.
Nowadays I enjoy my glass of shiraz/cab sauv/tempranillo with lunch and the balance at dinner. My doc says it's too much, I say "what am I going to do? Die?" he just shakes his head and grins nowadays....
Ratty Guy: The main therapeutic effect of ibogaine is that it relaxes withdraw symptoms. It is not true that people do not have withdraw symptoms using the drug. "…eliminates 100% of opiate withdrawal and is a pain free detox”.....
"While this can and does happen, it is not a guarantee and is not always the case."
A whole lot depends on the person, amount of use, years of addiction, physical health and more. It is never easy getting clean.
. It's great your friend has recovered. Glad to hear it. A lot of the marketing on the drug is exaggerated, just like everything else that is marketed.
https://www.okacenter.com/ibogaine-success-rates/
Having said that I did do the whole "coyote dreaming' thing with the Yacqui... interesting vivid experience..... CARLOS! (OOPS - My Bad) He he he ,,,,
That explains the Helmet and the trike!!!
@cog
Lol....you are so right....I was away for three days, then had the cleansing ......I can still relive some of the experiences I had, just by closing my eyes and deliberately recalling. More vivid and real than some things I know are are reality. Strange how the brain works.
The trike is in hospital until I can't afford repairs so the helmet stays on the wall....
Because that is how scams work.
And I'm sure you don't think you are being scammed, but typically the person being scammed is the hardest to convince it is a scam; probably because they are the most invested, and no one likes to admit they have been scammed. Great hope; you've been scammed.
@Nyarlathotep
I've been scammed by what? My own experiences and results, that later led to me confirmations? If I've been scammed by some power that has given me life to the fullest? Then I guess I don't mind. I wonder, what would be the motive for this "power" to scam me? Trick me into getting all I've ever wanted and longed for, at the cost of helping others? Lol Sign me up for forever please. What an awesome scam, with the fulfilment of "home" as the duped ignoramus that I blindly fell into. Darn it to heck!!!
@Great hope
Oh dear. Religion has to be one of the greatest cons ever. For you to not even remotely consider the possibility that it is harmful to you and another person profits from it one way or another. Are those mud huts your religious "leaders" live in?
Have you given any money to religion? How about friends/family members? Is your religion considered in your will? I know you have donated at the least your time to it. And time does equal money in so many ways.
Can you at least spot the more obvious religious scammers like televangelist? Feel like ignoring most all of written history? (Even though victors write the history books, the power and influence or religion is on display in all of them, even if the particular religious institute was the victor.
@LogicFTW
Ya I've always said religion is bogus and stinks. I don't go to any church and I don't give my money away blindly. False prophets are easy to spot. And I never read any book on God until I already had the experience to believe. I don't look at man. I look to God and it's definitely there. Albeit an awesome delusion or the ultimate reality. Time will tell. But the miracles and daily confirmations along the way are pretty hard to deny that something is working in and outside of me for the greater good.
@Great Hope
If all of what you said is true, that is great. But why bother calling it god, or giving it any special traits that most all religions assign to the word "god."
Why not a simple: "I believe in a greater being, that may or may not have any influence whatsoever in my life but i also think churches, and organized religion is bullshit and a con, and want nothing to do with those yahoos?
@LogicFTW
Hmm, I see your point. I often use The Creator and Giver of Life. I probably should just use that alone? Thanks for the insight.
The fact that you can't understand what I said about being scammed, speaks volumes, imo. If you had a skeptical bone in your body you would be hearing klaxon alarms wailing in your ears.
@Nyarlathotep
No I get it. The "power" I'm referring to is not of man.
Attachments
Attach Image/Video?:
"Great hope - Why does scripture say that it is impossible to please God without faith? Why is it faith before presence?"
To avoid the necessity of any evidence, since a fictional deity means they can't ever offer any, as you have admitted. What can't you believe using the vapid smoke screen of faith?
@Sheldon
I figured it would go in this direction, is it really that hard to just once look at it as God does exist and answer from that? Example: Since God has quite a bit of power, it knows that this is the only way it works, to gain the knowledge of seeing how our human ways don't work in the long run, so in heaven we will no longer have the temptation. And everyone there, chose by faith to be with God. If God exists then that sounds pretty complete.
You guys say that your minds are not made up, yet you can't or won't even entertain it being possible because you want God's presence before faith? Are you really waiting for a human to come to you and say, hey guys I got God to come over for Buffalo wings on Tuesday night. You guys can come over if old man brings Eric. That's what you are waiting for??? *Facepalm*SMH* can you see that you've set up every block and unless God does it the way you want? Nothing will ever work, no one will have what your looking for. Do you realize how that sounds? You say you are open to believe, but only in certain conditions. God says it works by faith, you want it to be by expectation. You want it to be by experiencing it's presence, you can but it's not in your left brain or a book. So now then, please tell me how your mind is not made up?
Ya, sure God might not exist. There is absolutely no information on this making it a huge wishful theory, and if it's the case then Whoopdy Freakin Doo. But if God is there, like so many people have witnessed and experienced? Then you threw it all away because connecting with the Living Creator and putting the work into faith wasn't as fun as ridiculing what man has done? Sheesh, ok guys have fun with that.
No, the scammer tells the victim of the scam that it works by faith; god didn't tell you anything.
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