In 1415, Pope John XXIII, one of three competing Popes at the time, was deposed and excommunicated. The great historian Edward Gibbon wrote, "The more scandalous charges were suppressed; the vicar of Christ was accused only of piracy, rape, sodomy, murder and incest."
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Re: "The more scandalous charges were suppressed; the vicar of Christ was accused only of piracy, rape, sodomy, murder and incest."
Really? That's it? Well, that's not so bad. At least he should be able to get a job at another church somewhere.
@Tin-Man: At least he should be able to get a job at another church somewhere.
The next Pope made him Cardinal Bishop of Frascati. If it had happened today they'd probably have transferred him to Philadelphia or Adelaide.
Sorry Algebe I think you mean John XIII. XXIII was pope between 1958 & 1963....Your guy aint as X rated as you might suggest afterall his accusers were two other popes who couldnt have been much better.
Grinseed:
No. XXIII is right. It looks like they deleted him and reset the John series, so the Pope John of 20th century was given the same number.
https://staffblogs.le.ac.uk/crusading/2014/04/29/seeing-double-pope-john...
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08434a.htm
Hi, Algebe, I'm so sorry, but I don't see the reason for your OP. I'm probably misunderstanding why.
We all know the Popes are screwed up, right? So, why ... thanks.
Magnificent Beast:
I found the comment by Edward Gibbon amusing and decided to share it. I also think knowledge of the depraved history of the Christian church is useful when supporters of that church make claims about atheists having no basis for morality, as they frequently do.
Were you aware of the story of Pope John XXIII?
Algebe, EVERY pope has done dirty. I don't care which century, which number; the entire Catholic system in Rome is shitty. Women still can't be priests. They still haven't resolved the child abuse. And they're still the symbol of abusive power.
So what's new? Please know I'm not complaining; I just wanted to know if I was missing some info you had. I don't care what their stories are. But power of abuse like that. And Pope after Pope doesn't do a damn thing about it. No, thanks..
@Magnificent Beast: EVERY pope has done dirty.
We all know about the Borgia Pope Alexander VI and the more recent Pope with a Nazi past. But apologists will blithely write these off as exceptional aberrations. I'd like to have facts about a few more notorious wearers of the fisherman's ring, also about the seedy side of other religious leaders.
oh, well, I've got tons of info for you. Read: Galileo's Daughter
Also, look at the references in the book, "A World Without End". The author sites tons of credible sources, like original documents that show priests, popes and everybody was screwing around with everybody. I forgot his name, sorry.
Also, look at the reference pages in the books by DAn Brown. He sites more info which he got from original Catholic church documents; birth certificates, diaries, etc.
William Manchester's A World Lit By Fire is an excellent source. He has a very good reputation for fact finding. He wrote biographies on Churchill, etc. It's fascinating.
There's lots of info on the goings on. All the way back to day one, probably. They ALL screwed around. Murders, poisonings, all kinds of no-no's.
John XXIII was a more recent pope. Any chance you got the number wrong or something? Pope John XXIII was definitely not pope in 1415.
@JoC: Any chance you got the number wrong or something?
Nope. Check the reference in the Catholic Encyclopedia.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08434a.htm
In the entire OP is that the only apposite comment you have? When I asked you a while ago why the RCC didn't excomunicate paedophile priests you maintained the rape of a child didn't warrant such a severe penalty?
How does sodomy, or incest or piracy rank as more morally reprehensible than the rape of a child? Does the RCC have a scale of misdemeanours perhaps? With child rape somewhere between quaffing communion wine on the sly, and having a slightly dishevelled cassock?
Why is sodomy considered a crime as long as its between consenting adults? Is it only children the RCC thinks it's ok to sodomise then, is that it?
@ Sheldon
When the ARC into child abuse exposed that 20% of Catholic priests believed that sex with a prepubertal boy dd not contravene the oaths of celibacy and purity (in 2015!!!)...then I think it says it all. Yes a sizable percentage of the RCC considers it ok to have sex with children, providing you are a priest.
Is that what they mean by objective morality, looking for loopholes in celibacy laws so they abuse children? The mind fucking boggles, it really does.
He was excommunicated? They'd just move him to a new parish nowadays.
"Great moments in Church History #1: Pope John XXIII"
Sounds like an infomercial for one of those really shit music albums you can buy via tv shopping......
Very good, made me larf that did.
The list of popes site at Wikipedia,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_popes
certainly says it was John XXIII from from 25 May 1410 to 30 May 1415, 5 years and 5 days. But here it politely says he merely abidicated and later became the Dean of the College of Cardinals in 1417.
So I happily doffs me lid to Algebe for his impeccable reference.
I guess there had to be a lot of Johns who got to be pope over the past 2000 years and they just had to hit the reset button, as you say.
(872–882) Pope John VIII, poisoned and then clubbed to death
(896–897) Pope Stephen VI, Strangled
(903) Pope Leo V, Strangled
(914–928) Pope John X, smothered with pillow.
(955–964) Pope John XII, murdered by the jealous husband of the woman with whom he was in bed.
( 230-235) Pope Pontian, condemned to mines in Sardinia and died on island of Tavolara.
(235-12-21,) Pope Anterus, martyred at hands of Emperor Maximus
(236-1-10 ) Pope Fabian , died a martyr 250-1-20 during persecution by Decius
( June 253) Pope Cornelius, died a martyr
AND THE REST
Pope Dionysius (Saint) Elected 259-7-22 after year of persecutions and died 268-12-26, martyred [4]
Pope Felix I (Saint) Elected 269-1-5 and died 274-12-30, martyred [4]
Pope Eutychian (Saint) Elected 275-1-4 and martyred 283-12-7. [4]
Pope Caius (Saint) Elected 283-12-17 and martyred 296-4-22, but not at hands of his uncle, Diocletian [4]
Pope Marcellinus (Saint) Elected 296-6-30 and martyred 304-10-25 during persecution of Diocletian [4]
Pope Marcellus I (Saint) Elected 308-5-27 after 4-year vacancy and martyred 309-1-16.[4]
Pope Eusebius (Saint) Elected 309-4-18 and martyred in Sicily 309-8-17. [4][8]
Pope John I (Saint), Elected August 13, 523, during the Ostrogothic occupation of the Italian peninsula. Was sent as an envoy by Ostrogoth king Theodoric to Constantinople. Upon return, Theodoric accused John I of conspiracy with the Byzantine empire. Imprisoned and starved to death on 18 May 526. [4]
Pope Martin I (Saint) Elected in 649. Died in exile 655-9-16
Murdered popes
John VIII (872–882): Allegedly poisoned and then clubbed to death[9]
Stephen VI (896–897): Strangled[10]
Leo V (903): Allegedly strangled[11]
John X (914–928): Allegedly smothered with pillow[12]
John XII (955–964): Allegedly murdered by the jealous husband of the woman with whom he was in bed[13]
Benedict VI (973–974): Strangled[14]
John XIV (983–984): Either by starvation, ill-treatment or direct murder[15]
Clement II (1046–1047): Allegedly poisoned[16]
Celestine V (1294, died 1296): Allegedly murdered while in post-abdication captivity; allegations blame his successor, Pope Boniface VIII[17]
Boniface VIII (1294–1303): Allegedly (though unlikely) from the effects of ill-treatment one month before[18]
Dubious
Pope Hyginus (Saint) (c.138-c.142);[4] martyrdom[19]
Pope Pius I (Saint) (c.142-c.154), martyred by the sword according to old sources;[20] Claim of martyrdom removed from the 1969 General Roman Calendar after recent revisions[21]
Pope John Paul I (1912-1978) is the subject of numerous conspiracy theories.
See also
All days to remember over a hot cup of coffee and a good book.
I always wondered if, when you get high enough in clergy in some of the major churches like RCC, they have someone sit down with you and say: it is all bullshit, but it is our job to give people the answers they want and to protect the power of the church. You made it to the rich powerful white men club, time to go have fun, only rule is we gotta protect each other, no matter what, even in the face of realizing there is no divine justice or heaven/hell etc. And naturally sexually frustrated old white men around children with parents that believe in divine justice are easy pickings for abuse.
I wonder if he raped children.