Behaviorists all agree Genetics and environment have an affect on behavior and thought. The debate may be which is more a factor GENETICS or environment but all agree both affect personality and thinking. Atheist-If you were water board or tortured could you change your mind about your belief THERE IS NO GOD. So entrenched is your belief nothing could change your mind. "Believers" If you were water board or tortured could you change your mind about your belief THERE IS A GOD. So entrenched is your belief in GOD-nothing can change your mind. My contention both GENETICS and environment affect belief in God. There is a tendency in this forum to belittle ideas you disagree with. Sometimes the criticism becomes angry and "tormenting". Take it easy--This post is smart, intelligent, perceptive enlightening, and brilliant. Have a nice day.....
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When I was a teen I went through all 24 Tarzan books by Edgar Rice Burroughs. At the time those books were written, it was assumed that genetics were more influential than environment. White English nobility raised in a jungle rises above the lower life forms and black natives and becomes the superior being he was supposed to be.
Of course, that fallacy was destroyed once valid research on this topic was conducted.
Many atheists began our long journey from religion. I was raised in a devout christian family, but when I began to apply critical thinking, escaped the bonds of religious tyranny.
I do not need to be convinced by waterboarding, all I need is a rational explanation.
Actually the pendulum is swinging back to genetics (not entirely of course). As Pinker said, parenting is too important to be left to parents.
In truth, though twin studies have shown strong (but no absolute) influences of genetics in terms of character and intelligence... which can influence eventual life choices. It does make sense, though, evolution can only select for things that are inheritable, if mental attributes were not heritable, they could not have evolved in the first place.
But twin studies have also shown that genetics is not absolute. If one male monozygotic twin is gay, there is a substantial likelihood, but not absolute, that the twin will also be gay (there is, however, very little such correlation for females). Attributes like risk taking, aggressiveness etc. do tend to be genetic though parenting can channel these into constructive processes.
Which comes to culture. Culture makes up much of the rest. Culture (which may or may not include 'religious' rules) have evolved over centuries of human experience, rules that worked became embedded in culture. Cultures with the most successful rule sets tended to flourish, poor rule sets often resulted in chaotic stagnation.
Belittling ideas, ridiculing ideas, insulting ideas...no problem, you want to write and expound nonsensical claims on an Atheist Forum? Do you not think you get exactly what you deserve?
But for you to say This post is smart, intelligent, perceptive enlightening, and brilliant. LOL. Self praise is no praise at all.
Have a ridiculously smarmy day.
OLD MAN SHOUTS---YOU MADE MY POINT--HAVE A NICE DAY
Old man--My self praise was sarcasm SARCASM as in sarcastic You was supposed to laugh.. But you didn't get it.. It wasn't my fault.. That much self praise could only be SARCASM
@ Fiat
Ohhhhhh, sorry, thought you were being dead serious. Not used to sarcasm on these threads, especially from the likes of you and your rants.
In that case I agree your post was neither "smart, intelligent, perceptive enlightening, and brilliant". One could say it was dull, unintelligent, narcissistic, backward and humdrum, nah...not 'one could say' ...your post WAS dull, unintelligent, narcissistic, backward and humdrum.
For future occasions please advise at the start of your comment if you consider it humorous, sarcasm or a joke. Then we know what to look for. Saves so much misunderstanding.
@ fiat
As for belittling ideas, that only happens when an idea is actually foolish, stupid, perceptively oblivious, dimwitted, and uneducated.
Your self-praise is nothing more than being an egomaniacal and narcissistic braggart.
Perhaps if you wrote something worthy of debate...
Have a wonderful day.
rmfr
A love of mine--Your funny--very funny. As for belittling ideas that only happens when an idea is actually foolish, stupid, perceptively obvious dimwitted and educated,,,, A Love of mine.. SARCASTIC.. My praise for my intelligence was SARCASM.. FUNNY. You did what I said foolish people would do with my post. You belittled my post EXACTLY the way I said people do when they don't understand things.. I am funny with my sarcasm but you are funnier by doing EXACTLY what I said people to when they don't think and just criticize
I say this seriously fiat, but you are full of shit.
Your proposition is built around the concept that people may or may not be forced to change their positions because of torture. You seem to forget the early christian martyrs all held strong to their beliefs despite facing extreme torture or a horrible death.
The same situation is displayed when we hear stories about war heroes who were willing to sacrifice themselves for a conviction.
History has demonstrated that you cannot "force" a person to alter a strong conviction.
DAVID THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I AM SAYING
fiat: Okay, okay,,,, calm down. "You are funny with your sarcasm." "You have a great sense of humor." It must be a problem with your English. How about a refresher course?
@ fiat
If you mean for it to be sarcasm, then give the warning BEFORE. Such as,
Sarcastically speaking, this post is smart, intelligent, perceptive enlightening, and brilliant.
By putting the warning AFTER, persons are still going to wonder if you actually meant it to be sarcasm. By putting the warning BEFORE, persons will read it and laugh with you instead of at you. Comprenez-vous encore?
rmfr
TO ALL THOSE WHO RESPONDED TO MY POST "THIS POST that says I am SMART INTELLIGENT PERCEPTIVE ENLIGHTNING AND BRILLIANT
I WAS BEING SARCASTIC---LIKE BEING FUNNY.. IT AMAZES ME YOU COULDN,T FINGURE IT OUT
SARCASTIC --- SARCASM AS FUNNY FUNNY BUT YOU DIDN'T GET FUNNY LAUGH
Not only are you "SHIT" at arguing the theist position, but, you are "SHIT" at being a comedian as well. You might try " :-) " at the end of a post you intend as funny so someone can see your attempt at levity. You might take a clown class, come back and try again. :-) Now that is obviously funny!!!!
ENGLISH 101
Lesson 1: It is the writer's job to write clearly enough for the reader to understand. It is not the reader's job to interpret the writer.
cognostic---The whole idea of sarcasm is to say something so outrageous it is sarcastic. Sarcasm is always over stated to become unbelievable --just funny- like laughing. My Praise of myself was so so so much overstated it could only be sarcasm--Funnny
AGREED: "cognostic---The whole idea of sarcasm is to say something so outrageous it is sarcastic."
And your obtuse, pathetic, floundering inanely pedantic attempt at it has FAILED HORRIBLY. Good luck next time. (Exaggeration is also funny and I bet this post gets more likes than yours.) The whole idea of WRITING is to write clear enough that people understand what you mean. If you give me your address, I will take up a collection to help you through Clown School. I am sure many will donate. We really want you to succeed.
"Sarcasm is always over stated"
Is it though, really? I think not...
"My Praise of myself was so so so much overstated it could only be sarcasm"
Not if the arrogance of many theists on here is any marker, I do hope that's not too overstated for you.
You are acting exactly like your hero, Trump.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6PXFI7jAyw
Please don't get riled up. The concept of sarcasm is difficult to convey over text. It's not inconceivable that it would be lost on an online forum.
Maybe if next time you try out sarcasm, you make it clearer? Personally I prefer not to use sarcasm online, but when I do I add a tag (sarcasm) or the Reddit standby /s to indicate it.
Or simply follow Tin Man'[s Example: *Rolling eyes, "Real good job with that sarcasm there."
@ Kenny/fiat
That's why nobody thought it was funny. Sarcasm can be understated as well.
Viz: Many of the examples involve irony, sarcasm, satire, understatement, or hyperbole, requiring the listener to figure out what the nonliteral intention of the speaker is.
From Cambridge English Corpus
Seems to describe your efforts. You should look at each term in that sentence and realise where you went so wrong.
Oh and so you really understand: sarcasm
/ˈsɑːkaz(ə)m/
noun
the use of irony to mock or convey contempt.
"she didn't like the note of sarcasm in his voice"
synonyms: derision, mockery, ridicule, satire, irony, scorn, sneering, scoffing, gibing, taunting;
Or more likely , having read you 'serious' posts it was hyperbole, which is how we all read it. Oh wait, and unfunny.
@Cog Re: "It is the writer's job to write clearly enough for the reader to understand. It is not the reader's job to interpret the writer."
To bad God didn't understand that concept when he "enlightened"/inspired the genius folks who wrote/compiled the bible. lol
<
This is not the athiest position, is it really that difficult to look up the definition of a work in order to accurately use it?
You'd probably find most people would just tell whomever was torturing them, what they wanted to hear, long before anything else.
But have a word with the theistic mob such as the catholic church who have been conducting the torture of peoples for centuries.
Yes, if they fail to make a valid logical argument, cant give evidence to support a claim, won't answer questions, deflect or get basic bloody definitions wrong.
Errr... no, it really wasn't.
Exactly.
You can torture someone into *saying* they believe in god, but you can't torture them into actually believing.
Exactly==Exactly--You can torture someone into SAYING they believe in GOD but you can't torture them into ACTUALLY believing--EXACTLY
@fiat "Atheist-If you were water board or tortured could you change your mind about your belief?"
"A mind changed against its' will is of the same opinion still." Countries like China and North Korea do have "Re-education Centers." In these centers, torture and indoctrination training force the non-compliant back into line with government policies. Do people really change their minds or are they just beat down so badly they agree with the party lines to stop the torture?
THERE IS NO GOD.? " So entrenched is your belief nothing could change your mind. " ATHEISM IS NOT A SYSTEM OF BELIEFS, THERE IS NO DOGMA
Says Who? This is not an "Atheist" position. It is a position some atheists hold regarding many Gods as the definition of these gods is not possible or can not be proved. If you think you have a God that can be prove we are all willing to hear about it and most of us, once the evidence is provided, will be believers. We may not be worshipers but we will certainly believe your god is real. What can you offer? Atheists are people who do not believe in God or gods. That does not mean they are not real. It only means that so far, based on the evidence theists provide, there is no good reason to believe,
GENETICS AND ENVIRONMENT:
"My contention both GENETICS and environment affect belief in God.
I agree 100%., Throughout history there has been a human propensity to create gods. Not all cultures but most. This is the magical belief in Agency in action and it is a survival mechanism. Two people walking alone in the jungle see a bush move. One of them thinks "Lion" and runs away. The other thinks, "Just the wind." stands his ground and is eaten my the lion. Those of us who were once best at ascribing agency to things. survived. Gods and Evil became the ultimate agency. Crops fail, god is displeased... bla bla bla..... This supports both a genetic propensity perpetuated by evolution. 100% Agreement.
THEN WHY DID YOU GET THE DEFINITION OF ATHEISM WRONG AGAIN?
This post is smart, intelligent, perceptive enlightening, and brilliant. Have a nice day...
Is it fair to label all Christians as fanatic as extremists? "All Christians hate fags and hang out at the funerals of dead soldiers yelling things like (God hates fags) ? " "All Christians are insane and they are responsible for the bombing of abortion clinics/" "All Christians are morons and believe the earth is only 6000 years old?" This would be dishonest if we did it. It is also dishonest when you do it. You have been told a hundred times what the definition of atheism is by active atheists. Why not use it and stop making inane and very ignorant assertions.
No one is angry at your ignorant inability to grasp a simple concept. At the very least we feel sorry for you. At most, we are tired of repeating ourselves and simply want to tell you to go the hell away.
If you haven't the intelligence or the integrity to see the rank stupidity and dishonesty in describing a lack or absence of belief (atheism) as a belief, then debate is pointless.
Amply evidenced by your absurd suggestion waterboarding can inform our intellect of the validity of any claim or belief.
What will make me believe a deity exists is the same as what makes me believe all else, objective evidence commensurate to the claim.
Now please do take your pathetic trolling elsewhere, you superstitious clown, and do have a nice day.
@Kenny (fiat)
It has been explained to you many times that it is difficult to convey sarcasm in written form. Yet you keep trying, and keep freaking out when people don't get it. Why do you do this to yourself?
Nyarlathotep.. I am probably the smartest person in the Universe===Sarcasm- I will try other ways to bring humor to the forum. .And hopefully interesting ideas.
fiat, one of your problems is that you are a poor communicator. Your intent is lost in the message. When so many people arrive at a common misunderstanding, then the source of the misunderstanding is the problem.
The second problem is that in this forum, many of us atheists do see theists who do take the position of arrogance, and they truly believe in their crap.
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