Faith is NOT a virtue

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Jared Alesi's picture
Faith is NOT a virtue

Virtues are characteristics that are desirable in people because they are good for society, and generally agree with the status quo morality of any given culture. We value things like honesty and integrity because they are progress building traits. A good worker is honest with his boss, for example. We value teamwork and courage and honor, and all these other general terms that seem vaguely morally good and could be said about Captain America.

However, Faith is also classified as a virtue for some reason, and I challenge this vehemently. Religious faith is simply a denial of advancement in favor of traditional beliefs. Faith is the epitome of willful ignorance. Believing in a claim with no evidence, and in spite of contradictory evidence, is no virtue. It's intellectual poison, and it corrupts what could have been beautiful minds. Faith is the antithesis of logic and reason, and a direct inhibitor of scientific advancements.

Now, I can already see someone saying the classic line. Yes, I know that Galileo and Newton and Copernicus and Mendel and so many other famous scientists were religious, and had faith. Let me make my counterargument clear and concise so that there is little to no ambiguity: These scientists did not use their religion to make the discoveries, and their own religious faith was ignored entirely while conducting their experiments. They used the scientific method in all their procedures, and they were willing to concede that some aspects of their respective religions were flawed when faced with evidence for such. In fact, Newton even said, "The Bible tells you how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go." When the conclusion was reached that the sun is actually thousands of times larger than the Earth, and that so were other stars, a religious scientist such as Newton would gladly concede that the verse in Revelations that says stars will fall to Earth was false, and get on with it.

So let it be known that I am not saying that no religious person could be a scientist, but that their faith must be tossed aside while they work to find the truth. Resistance to change in beliefs when confronted with new evidence has no place in the science lab, and no place in society. We would never progress if faith was held above reason, so the ultimate answer is that faith is a hindrance and should be abandoned.

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LogicFTW's picture
Strongly agree.

Strongly agree.
Fortunately faith is in serious decline in most western societies.
Cannot happen fast enough.

Jared Alesi's picture
Seriously. But then when

Seriously. But then when everyone is an atheist, what will we talk about? The weather? It'll be nicer once everyone moves to green energy.

LogicFTW's picture
We could debate the outer

We could debate the outer edges of known science!
Is the universe infinite? finite? Can either option ever make any sense to us? Is it something else?

Maybe in such a scenario we can talk about the old days when the vast majority of people believed in fairy tales and even went to war over different versions of fairy tales. Would love to live long enough to see the day that "what to talk about" in an atheist forum was actually a problem.

Would be very nice when everyone moves to green energy. Or at least, less awful energy than fossil fuels...

Sapporo's picture
Absolutely. Doubt > Faith.

Absolutely. Doubt > Faith.

mykcob4's picture
You could have said it no

You could have said it no better Jared!

mickron88's picture
i even doubt that the word

i even doubt that the word virtue is real....

if you attach it to religion it'll be futile...

Grinseed's picture
"Seriously. But then when

"Seriously. But then when everyone is an atheist, what will we talk about?"

We could start conducting serious, meaningful discussions about euthanasia, abortion, human rights, workable solutions for social and economic justice, animal rights, and the beauty pageant favourite, world peace, etc etc. We wont run out of things to talk about just because gods pass away, we will be free to broaden the scope of discussions.

* Added
And we would have to remain atheists ever vigilant against the idea of religion ensuring it didn't come creeping back. We would still need to remind future generations about the limitations religions demand in exchange for comforting lies they offer. That vigilance could be the new virtue.

algebe's picture
Faith is a good quality.

Faith is a good quality. Human beings need to have faith in their friends and families, and we should all strive to be worthy of faith. I have faith in my wife and family because of who they are, not because of witness statements or affidavits. I have faith that they'll always be on my side. They have faith in me because I'm always there for them. My clients have faith in me because I always do my work in good faith. I have faith in them because they always pay me in good faith.

The creators of religions have latched onto to this positive and fundamental human quality and used it to short-circuit our reason. They suck on human faith as lice and leeches suck blood. They lock us in by appealing to the profound sense of guilt we feel if we betray someone's faith.

Religious faith isn't a virtue. It's virtual faith. It's faith porn.

Jared Alesi's picture
This is a different

This is a different definition of faith. You're meaning trust, essentially. Religious faith is just bullshit. Faith as in trust, and faithfulness to one another are definitely good things.

algebe's picture
@Jared Alesi: This is a

@Jared Alesi: This is a different definition of faith.

No. It's precisely the same thing.

Religions don't create faith. They prey on it and use it. They take something that is human, natural, and good, and pervert it into a shackle.That's why gods are always fathers or mothers. As children we place our greatest faith in our parents. Religions hijack that natural emotion.

Cognostic's picture
@rAlgebe

@rAlgebe
Why faith in your wife and friends is a really bad idea.

Faith is the acceptance of information without evidence. If you run about your life having faith in those around you, you are living in a fantasy world.

Your wife is a human being. She has needs, desires and dreams. She is changing every day,. Faith in her like faith in God makes her a thing and not a human being. To have faith in another person is to "Not know them and to not respect them for who they are."

Every day you should be thinking, "I love my wife and she is a human being and if I do not treat her well, she can pack her bags and leave me at any time. If I do not take an interest in who she is as a person and help her with her goals and her dreams, we are both wasting our lives." "Faith" blinds you to the fact that there are real living people on this planet. It allows you to tuck people neatly away into categories. It causes you to miss the fact that the people around you are growing and changing every day.

Being human is like being a fire. It is a process and not a thing. You may trust your wife more than anyone else in the world. You may be able to predict her moods. You may be completely comfortable around her. But when you have faith, you stop working to make the relationship real. Why bring her flowers, you have faith that she loves you. Why do this or that for you, she is your wife and you have faith that she will always love you. It is always a mistake to bring "FAITH" into any relationship. As soon as you have it, you should throw it out the window and then sit down with your partner for a long talk about the relationship and how you can work together to make it better. "FAITH" is always an illusion.

algebe's picture
@Cognostic: Faith is the

@Cognostic: Faith is the acceptance of information without evidence.

Right. And there aren't enough hours in the day or years in a life to check every fact exhaustively. In human relationships you have to take some things on faith, or really they aren't relationships at all. When faith is betrayed, by a lover or a parent, the suffering is awful. But that doesn't mean we should aim for a safe, gray life by avoiding these relationships. Life is risky.

Why bring her flowers, you have faith that she loves you.

Having faith in someone isn't the same as taking them for granted.

Jared Alesi's picture
The faith you have in a

The faith you have in a partner is not the same as a religious faith, in that the former is founded upon past interactions. You trust your partner to maintain fidelity because they have in the past. Religious faith, on the other hand, is unfounded. There's no evidence to support it, and no past success or failure with which to extrapolate. Religious faith is irrational. Trust is earned through experimentation.

algebe's picture
@Jared Alesi: Religious faith

@Jared Alesi: Religious faith, on the other hand, is unfounded.

Exactly. But religions are designed to exploit the basic human need to have faith in our families and tribes. They'll tell you that just as you had faith in your parents when you were a child, you can trust Jesus now to take care of them after they've died. That's a lie that plays on a deep-seated emotion to discourage us from doubting. Pure evil.

Jared Alesi's picture
Precisely. Both are a form of

Precisely. Both are a form of trust, but I separate the two because religious faith is unjustified. Apologies for the confusion.

algebe's picture
@Jared Alesi: I separate the

@Jared Alesi: I separate the two because religious faith is unjustified. Apologies for the confusion.

No apologies needed! I agree entirely. As I said. religious faith is fake. It's faith porn.

Cognostic's picture
@Algebe

@Algebe
NO! That is the whole point! Take nothing on faith. Everyone and everything is on a sliding scale. You may trust people to behave this way or that and when they don't you adjust your scale of trust. THERE IS NO FAITH IN RELATIONSHIPS. To have faith is to be blind to the world around you. "FAITH" is the very thing that kills relationships.

With "FAITH" you do not have a relationship with a human being. You have a relationship with an idea. You have stopped thinking and stopped growing. You and your relationships have stagnated. You are pretending that you know all the answers just like the ill-informed religious sects that have faith in their preachers and their gods., "FAITH" is not a path to truth. There is nothing in this world I can not convince myself of based on "FAITH." "FAITH" is by definition, an "ILLUSION." It causes you not to look at the world around you. It is lazy and it will lead you nowhere.

algebe's picture
@Cognostic: THERE IS NO FAITH

@Cognostic: THERE IS NO FAITH IN RELATIONSHIPS.

You can never have 100% certain knowledge about another human being. Some things you have to accept on face value. Your "scale of trust" is just a paraphrase for faith. Unless you're willing to accept some things on faith, there will never be a relationship.

You and your relationships have stagnated.

So is suspicion the force that keeps relationships alive and growing?

Sapporo's picture
If you have suspicion towards

If you have suspicion towards someone, that is not the sign of a healthy relationship, clearly.

Faith is useless as it does not provide anything, only confidence without evidence. Instead of faith in a person, it is preferable to have confidence in someone based on past experience. That doesn't mean you go round doubting their every action - or at least, it is more that you try to have an ever-increasing confidence in a person after doubts have been satisfactorily addressed.

A "scale of trust" should ideally be similar to the level of confidence that scientists have that a hypothesis is true - i.e. it should be proportionate with reality.

Cognostic's picture
@Algebe

@Algebe
NO! That is the whole point! Take nothing on faith. Everyone and everything is on a sliding scale. You may trust people to behave this way or that and when they don't you adjust your scale of trust. THERE IS NO FAITH IN RELATIONSHIPS. To have faith is to be blind to the world around you. "FAITH" is the very thing that kills relationships.

With "FAITH" you do not have a relationship with a human being. You have a relationship with an idea. You have stopped thinking and stopped growing. You and your relationships have stagnated. You are pretending that you know all the answers just like the ill-informed religious sects that have faith in their preachers and their gods., "FAITH" is not a path to truth. There is nothing in this world I can not convince myself of based on "FAITH." "FAITH" is by definition, an "ILLUSION." It causes you not to look at the world around you. It is lazy and it will lead you nowhere.

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