Faith allows you no insight to truth or knowledge.
Is it true that all god claims could be individually true if only you have faith?
Yet if there is only one god wouldn't this faith also lead to fallacy?
So faith is not a reliable path to truth and knowledge.
Why is this obviously flawed logic so cherished by christians?
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An atheist needs more faith or trust to believe that God doesn’t exist. Faith in Christianity is trust in One who has proven Himself trustworthy. It is not blind faith, but faith based on evidence and knowledge. Your logic is seriously flawed and some of your posts are disrespectful. Why are you not calling out Muslims or other religions.
First of all you don't even understand what an atheist is so let me explain!!! Atheists don't claim there is no god we claim that we don't believe in the god claims because there is no evidence.
Also please show me you evidence!
I hope you feel like my posts are disrespectful... I believe that you follow an immoral piece of shit slavery condoning sexist god. Your ideas follow no logical reasoning you have shown through your posts that you not only don't understand science you also don't understand your own fucking book. I believe that christians are illogical assholes that cannot give any logical justification for what they follow! I think Jesus was a fucking myth and he himself in your holy book was a piece of shit! Your holy book is shit, it has no morals and it continues to contradict itself over and over! So either you show some of this proof you keep claiming you have or you my good sir can fuck off!
As for other religions... I think they are all flawed they teach nonsense and also have no evidence to back up their claims... but I am not as familiar with thier holy books so first I will rid the world of this disgusting horrid sexist self mutilating book you call the Bible then I will move on and destroy all other religions! I might be overstating what I can accomplish in my short life here but mark my words I will start a revolution against Christianity and it's immoral disgusting teachings!!!
Thank you sincerely,
Burn your bible
Burnyourbible.org
@AJ777
Atheists don't need faith asshole. You need proof and you don't have any. So you call everyone that doesn't believe your myth "ignorant."
Hey fucknuts, if Burnyourbible wants to address christianity, he certainly has the right to do so. Other religions have nothing to do what Burnyourbible wrote. Why don't you stop being dishonest and just deal with the issue?
Are you sure you’re not agnostic? Maybe you are not understanding your own religion. Your position is one of ignorance in that you simply don’t know if God exists. This is called weak atheism or agnosticism. If your religion atheism is true then there’s no such thing as immorality. There is no such thing as truth, and there’s nothing for you to complain about because people teaching religions you don’t agree with are not really wrong. Read some books by honest atheists like Dawkins, or Nietzsche.
Atheism is not a religion you pompous arrogant asshole read your bible and show proof!!!
You keep saying you have proof well..., show it!!!
Atheism is a rejection of the god claims you hold the burden of proof not I
Atheism is one thing: A lack of belief in gods.
Atheism is not an affirmative belief that there is no god nor does it answer any other question about what a person believes. It is simply a rejection of the assertion that there are gods. Atheism is too often defined incorrectly as a belief system. To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
Older dictionaries define atheism as “a belief that there is no God.” Clearly, theistic influence taints these definitions. The fact that dictionaries define Atheism as “there is no God” betrays the (mono)theistic influence. Without the (mono)theistic influence, the definition would at least read “there are no gods.”
Atheism is not a belief system nor is it a religion.
While there are some religions that are atheistic (certain sects of Buddhism, for example), that does not mean that atheism is a religion. To put it in a more humorous way: If atheism is a religion, then not collecting stamps is a hobby.
Despite the fact that atheism is not a religion, atheism is protected by many of the same Constitutional rights that protect religion. That, however, does not mean that atheism is itself a religion, only that our sincerely held (lack of) beliefs are protected in the same way as the religious beliefs of others. Similarly, many “interfaith” groups will include atheists. This, again, does not mean that atheism is a religious belief.
Some groups will use words like Agnostic, Humanist, Secular, Bright, Freethinker, or any number of other terms to self identify. Those words are perfectly fine as a self-identifier, but we strongly advocate using the word that people understand: Atheist. Don’t use those other terms to disguise your atheism or to shy away from a word that some think has a negative connotation. We should be using the terminology that is most accurate and that answers the question that is actually being asked. We should use the term that binds all of us together.
If you call yourself a humanist, a freethinker, a bright, or even a “cultural Catholic” and lack belief in a god, you are an atheist. Don’t shy away from the term. Embrace it.
Agnostic isn’t just a “weaker” version of being an atheist. It answers a different question. Atheism is about what you believe. Agnosticism is about what you know.
Not all non-religious people are atheists, but…
In recent surveys, the Pew Research Center has grouped atheists, agnostics, and the “unaffiliated” into one category. The so-called “Nones” are the fastest growing “religious” demographic in the United States. Pew separates out atheists from agnostics and the non-religious, but that is primarily a function of self-identification. Only about 5% of people call themselves atheists, but if you ask about belief in gods, 11% say they do not believe in gods. Those people are atheists, whether they choose to use the word or not.
A recent survey from University of Kentucky psychologists Will Gervais and Maxine Najle found that as many as 26% of Americans may be atheists. This study was designed to overcome the stigma associated with atheism and the potential for closeted atheists to abstain from “outing” themselves even when speaking anonymously to pollsters. The full study is awaiting publication in Social Psychological and Personality Science journal but a pre-print version is available here.
Even more people say that their definition of “god” is simply a unifying force between all people. Or that they aren’t sure what they believe. If you lack an active belief in gods, you are an atheist.
Being an atheist doesn’t mean you’re sure about every theological question, have answers to the way the world was created, or how evolution works. It just means that the assertion that gods exist has left you unconvinced.
Wishing that there was an afterlife, or a creator god, or a specific god doesn’t mean you’re not an atheist. Being an atheist is about what you believe and don’t believe, not about what you wish to be true or would find comforting.
All atheists are different
The only common thread that ties all atheists together is a lack of belief in gods. Some of the best debates we have ever had have been with fellow atheists. This is because atheists do not have a common belief system, sacred scripture or atheist Pope. This means atheists often disagree on many issues and ideas. Atheists come in a variety of shapes, colors, beliefs, convictions, and backgrounds. We are as unique as our fingerprints.
"Atheism is not an affirmative belief that there is no god."
Prove it.
Don't YOU start this atheism is a religion bullshit, John.
YOU KNOW it isn't a religion.
Just because a couple of christians are getting their hats handed to them is no excuse for you to all of a sudden lose your fucking mind!
I understand this is a very emotional and sensitive topic for atheists. I'm not trying to shatter your self-identity or anything. I simply want evidence that atheism is a lack of belief instead of an affirmative claim. If my neighbor tells me he is pretty sure there is no god, in fact he is certain that there is none, does that disqualify him as an atheist because its an affirmative claim?
@JohnB. The difference between agnostic atheists and atheists sometimes it's a tricky path...
In the God Delusion, Dawkins explain how could a seven-point scale be used to qualify oneself. It says sth like: 1 is "I'm completely sure a God exists" and 7 "I'm completely sure there's any god". I consider myself 6.5 an still I'd call myself an atheist, just as if you were a 1 or even a 2, I would still call you a Christian.
One thing is claiming "There's no god, and I'm 100% sure" and other "There's no god, I'm almost sure, and I live my life as if there was no god", which the most usual among non-believers. Some people would call this an agnostic, some an agnostic atheist... For me, over 5, you are an atheist and below 2, you're a believer.
(edited) P.S. I think it's impossible to be 100% sure of his existence or the lack of it, at least until Science could find a way to disprove or confirm any god in the future.
Well right, that's how I've always understood it. The scale you gave is a good tool.
The thing is these people think atheists don't belong on that scale. You're not allowed to be 100% or 1% sure that that there isn't a god. To be sure in any degree is to make a positive claim, and they reject that. They define atheism as the absence of belief. By their definition a brick wall is atheist, since it too lacks a belief in god. By my definition, and Dawkins' spectrum, a wall isn't an atheist, because it has no beliefs at all on the matter.
Well, John, I think uncertainty could have different degrees, that's why I like this scale. Since Dawkins himself, as skeptic as he is, claims to be a 6.9, very unlikely, but still not entirely rejectable, I guess it would be difficult to anyone to be 100% certain of the non-existence of a divine entity. But anyone is entitled to think he/she is 100% sure, one way or the other.
Btw, which number would you say you are?
Look, John, we have had this discussion before, but I will spell it out for you.
I am an atheist. I don't have a faith. I don't believe in any gods. And yes, I am affirmative in that statement.
here is why.
I don't believe in any yellow unicorns floating around Pluto either. You'd say that I have faith that they don't exist, BUT, the fact is I don't need to go around disproving every bullshit dreamt up idea that comes along. If there is no proof of a god, then I don't believe there is a god. That isn't a "belief system" or a "faith", that is a natural state of things.
"And yes, I am affirmative in that statement."
Good. After all, who goes around joining forums for beliefs that they lack, right?
There's an inifinite number of things that may or may not exist in the universe. The god of the bible is just one of that infinity of things, with no greater claim to existence than Santa Claus, fairies, or leprechauns. That's enough for me to conclude, based on the balance of probabilities, that god doesn't exist.
I'm not asking you to prove your beliefs. Read he conversation again.
Faith is an excuse for not having proof!
Atheists do actually have faith. Most have faith in science. You, my friend, have faith in internet memes and poorly researched internet articles.
No JoC, I can TRUST science because it passes muster. You only see internet sites from me because WE ARE ON THE INTERNET STUPID! I can cite references. If you noticed I don't cite YouTube! Dumbass!
To deny a claim is to affirm its opposite is true. Some logical arguments for the existence of God are the Kalam cosmological argument, the moral argument, and the teleological argument. Maybe try to educate yourself about these arguments and others so you could understand why some people think it is reasonable to believe in a God. There no basis for morality in the atheistic world view. If atheistic naturalism is true we can’t even trust our own thoughts because we are just programmed genetic machines with no soul or free will. I’m not trying to offend you but, I truly think you are under educated.
How fucking stupid! AJ777 not everything that is opposite is true.
Morality comes from society, not a god!
People think it is reasonable to believe in a god because they DON'T think. And you can stop with the condescending BULLSHIT asswipe!
I think that YOU are undereducated. I know that you lack critical thought.
Which society?
It has already been hashed out on this forum...exhaustively. Reference other threads.
@AJ777: "Which society?"
In your case an iron age nomadic sheep-herding society that engaged in child mutilation, aggressive warfare, genocide, rape, and slavery in the name of a tribal sky god.
In my case, a 21st century society based on the rule of law, democracy, respect for human rights, respect for private property, progress through scientific endeavor, and rejection of the initiation of violence as a mechanism for human or international relations.
Where is this utopia you speak of? Crimes against children, rapes, murders, sexual slavery, theft, etc.. still occur everyday in every society. Wars still occur. You probably owe your freedom to the threat of violence by your government against another government.
so let's use this @aj777 and @joc
Can you in court of law be unconvinced of someone's guilt but not think their innocent?
I can probably guess your answer so let me argue it now
I can not be convinced that someone is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt but that does not automatically make them innocent in my eyes.
Also both of you really need to reread the Bible if you ever really read it in the first place... then I need you to read actual scientific papers in the fields of evolution and quantum physics and astrophysics. Please don't just send another religious interpretation or excuses or apologetics's articles.
Actually spend time reading and also I would love to see a debate happen between @aj777 and @jon the catholic on this site.
I believe this will show even among two believers use it the same holy book they themselves will argue on fundamental differences.
See this is the biggest problem with religion if there was a all powerful all seeing all knowing god then yes 100% yes he could create a book that all humans would understand fully, he would of known every argument against and givin the correct answer. Now you might say he doesn't have to give those... ok well in that case:
Your fairy tale god not only knows what it would take to convince me and he hasn't not done so yet so either he does not exist or he doesn't want me to know yet if he exists either way not my fucking problem!
On the whole faith thing please tell me what exactly in science do we have to have faith in? Is evidence and facts not enough to come to a logical conclusion? Why would I throw away logic and have faith? Faith is something you turn to when there is no good evidence for what you believe.... if there was good evidence you wouldn't have faith you would have facts.
@aj777
I will only ask you one more time what is your fucking proof if you have none then go pray for some!!!
I don't think you have ever read the bible
http://www.philosophyofreligion.info/theistic-proofs/the-cosmological-ar...
http://www.iep.utm.edu/design/
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