Donating = Loving
Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
Log in or create an account to join the discussions on the Atheist Republic forums.
Donating = Loving
Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
Donating = Loving
Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
FREE E-BOOKS
Get the book "Why There Is No God" and one more book for FREE!
Sign up below for the Atheist Republic Newsletter to get the books.
Record Your Message!
Record your voice here for it to be aired on the Atheist Republic Voicemails Podcast.
Send us your views and opinions, your personal stories, messages of support, comments on recent news, or any comments you would like to share about your part of the world.
Note : By clicking record you are allowing us to broadcast your message on any of our platforms.
Affiliate Disclaimer
Links to atheist related books, shirts and movies and other atheism related products are affiliate links.
All proceeds will go to keeping the Atheist Republic website up and running; providing resources, advocacy, community tools and encouragement to atheists all over the world.
he said finite, not infinite. /e In addition to having finite objects with no starting point, you can have infinite objects with starting points.
Greensnake
"an object that is finite in existence but has no first point of existence! Therefore, it has no creation date."
I took your use of the word finite as infinite but still if an object does not have a creation date that would mean it always existed or if a object is finite in existence that would mean it has a starting point and connot be infinite in existence right? this example is a contradiction. An object cant be limited in existence and have no start time that is implying that an object can jump into the middle of existence? Are you saying that a person can jump into existence at year 50? But if thats the case wouldn't year 50 be the starting point? Idk but this is a challenging, great example!
Andrewcgs - "if an object does not have a creation date that would mean it always existed"
Andrewcgs - "if a object is finite in existence that would mean it has a starting point"
both of those statements are actually false.
At any rate greensnake said that both objects "came into existence" so this whole thing is a contradiction and is and invalid example. You can't say somthing is limited in existence and have no start time thats like saying an object had a starting point buts has no creation date that is a contradiction you can't say somthing started but has no start time that just a flat out contradiction! Yet nobody has stated a valid 4th possibility idk why you guys cant admit that!
Andrewcgs - "My definition of created is something that has a starting point."
Andrewcgs - "At any rate greensnake said that both objects "came into existence"
This is what I meant by using A and ~A. You see, when Greensnake came up with an example that didn't fit your two categories, you widened the category. It's pretty clear that "created" means whatever the hell you need it to mean---at any given moment---to make your argument work. Them goal posts getting heavy yet?
You can't say somthing is limited in existence and have no start time thats like saying an object had a starting point buts has no creation date that is a contradiction you can't say somthing started but has no start time that just a flat out contradiction! Yet nobody has stated a valid 4th possibility idk why you guys cant admit that!
But still created and starting point means the same thing that is not widening nothing its just another word that has the same meaning.this is my point that you have already admitted to no matter what EVERYTHING thats in existence will fit in 1 of those 2 ways. I cant believe you tried to make an argument that the word start and create dont have the same meaning pitiful!
Andrewcgs - "You can't say somthing is limited in existence and have no start time"
Consider the area under the graph of t^(1/2)/t between t=0 and t=1. It is finite, but has no start point.
The start point is when it comes into existence
If it is truly limited in existence, if it has no starting point then that implies that it is not truly limited in existence so the claim of a object that is finite in existence but has no starting point is just an invalid example. But also like i said start=create which greensnake has stated the object was created which proves that this example is invalid and not a 3rd way for something to exist!
"You cant say something started but have no start time"
Number 1 because the time it started would be the start time aka creation date.
Number 2 thats a contradiction!
Andrewcgs - "the claim of a object that is finite in existence but has no starting point is just an invalid example"
So all that remains is for you to tell us at what point in time (t) the graph of t^(1/2)/t between t=0 and t=1 starts since clearly it is finite.
so are you saying something that starts can have no start point is that not a contradiction making that invalid? how can i explain something that doesn't follow logic.
It only contradicts the assumption that all finite objects have start points. It is best to not make assumptions about infinities and infinitesimals, because common sense is notoriously bad on this topic.
Sorry but an object that started....but didn't start
Just doesn't make sense and im not giving this example any creditablity. I will ask for another example since you have claimed to know multiple other ways then the 2 ways i have stated something can exist which you havent even acknowledged your example that i have proven to be in the category of the 2 ways i have stated, why cant you admit that I have and accurate theory
"why cant you admit that I have and accurate theory"
Because that would be lieing. What he said was most certainly astute, whether YOU can understand it or not.
I understand it but its invalid, and object that started but didn't start? get out here with that non sense and you sitting here justifying this is just shameful your intelligent is questionable if you think what he said is ASTUTE!
Andrewcgs - "Just doesn't make sense and im not giving this example any creditablity. I will ask for another example since you have claimed to know multiple other ways then the 2 ways i have stated"
1/t, has an infinite length, but does not exist at all points in time.
sin(1/t)/t from has an infinite length, but does not exist at all points in time.
The area under sin(1/t)/t is finite and has no start point.
How many more do you want?
What that looks like is bullshit, like what are you saying there?
Do you have even the most basic understanding of mathematical computations and calculations?
My 3 possibilities
1. Something is always or infinite
2.Something is created or started
3.that something doesn't exist
Can you simplify your example to a 4th possibility in a way that is easy to understand as i have done because thats making little sense to me i understand the first 2 points but the last one is were you lost me.
The definition of infinite "limitless or endless in space, extent, or size; impossible to measure or calculate."
something that is infinite would have to always exist or its not infinite i cant believe i have to explain this to you guys!
Definition of START
1. the point in time or space at which something has its origin; the beginning of something.
2. cause (an event or process) to happen.
so if something is finite and has no start what is the orgin? What is the beginning of existence for that object? So when ever the object came into existence since its not infinite wouldent that be considered the start point? You see there are holes the size of texas in your argument lets see how you "goal post move or whatever" on these questions!
Black holes have an infinitesimal (infinitely small) Singularity. They haven't always existed.
Infinite can have a starting point( combining the 2 ways i have stated) for example starting now until forever that can be considered infinite but it cannot stop at any point or it will no longer be infinite. So i was wrong about that but that was the definition but i knew infinite worked in 2 ways but again the two ways is the ones i have stated either a starting point or always exist. The example that was presented claims that it is neither infinite nor does it have a starting point but doesn't explain how it exist. in my 2 ways i have explained how they exist 1 is infinite and the other is created until he explains how it exist instead of explaining how it doesn't then it is not a 3rd way for something to exist!
Andrewcgs - "Infinite can have a starting point( combining the 2 ways i have stated) for example starting now until forever that can be considered infinite but it cannot stop at any point or it will no longer be infinite."
The arc length of -1/t from t=-1 to t=0 is infinite, has a starting point, and stops. Back to the drawing board!
Can you explain how it is infinite if something that is infinite never stops?
in·fi·nite
ˈinfənət/
adjective
1.
limitless or endless in space, extent, or size; impossible to measure or calculate.
None if that says anything about not stopping.
"ENDLESS"! Like i said your intelligent is questionable!!!
end·less
ˈen(d)ləs/Submit
adjective
having or seeming to have no end or limit.
Does not say anything about stopping.
Definition of STOP- come to an end; cease to happen.
Like i said your intelligent is questionable!
A stop is not a limit. So so.thing that stops can still be infinite. And this is not my definition s. They are Google's
If somebody starting running from now until forever if that person stopped at any point they would loose the title of infinite running.
It depends how they run. Suppose someone runs 1/2 of some distance, then runs half the remaining distance, then half of the that remaining distance, etc. If you allow mathematical precision, that person could be running forever and never reach the original goal. So, that person doesn't stop running (at ever slower rates) and yet never gets to the original finish line.
Pages