The Existence and Attributes Of God

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Devans99's picture
The Existence and Attributes Of God

Hi folks! I’ve been thinking about St Thomas Aquinas and his 5 ways to demonstrate the existence of God (see http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1002.htm). I’ve come up with an updated version.

I will show the existence of a Timeless, Non-Material, Powerful, Intelligent, Benevolent First Cause. That is equivalent to God by my definition.

First we have to logically justify the existence of a first cause. We can do so in 6 ways:

1. Can’t get something from nothing so something must have existed ‘always’. IE if there was ever a state of nothingness, it would persist to today, so something has permanent existence. It’s not possible to exist permanently in time, so the ‘something’ must be a timeless first cause.

2. Time stretching back forever forms an infinite regress, which is impossible; an infinite regress has no start so none of it can exist. Even if we have another time, say ‘time2’ and have that create time, we are still in an infinite regress (time3, time4, etc…). So the only way out of this infinite regress is to have a timeless first cause that starts everything else off.

3. There was a start of time (see http://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/debate-room/taking-your-advise). So a timeless first cause must exist that created time

4. The Big Bang theory suggests that spacetime began 13 billion years ago. This would require a timeless first cause (beyond spacetime)

5. The first cause determines the second, the second the third, and so on. In a universe with no first cause, nothing would be determined, so nothing could exist

6. The universe is fine-tuned for life. Must be a fine tuner. But the fine tuner’s environment must also be fine-tuned for life. Implies another fine-tuner. This infinite regress must terminate with a timeless fine tuner who is synonymous with the first cause.

Having established there was a first cause, we can move onto establishing the attributes of the first cause:

[text removed by moderator, read it here.]

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David Killens's picture
Sorry Dan, we can't get past
Devans99's picture
Energy is conserved. Even
Nyarlathotep's picture
Dan - Energy is conserved.
David Killens's picture
But your proposition(s) 2,3,4
Devans99's picture
Propositions 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
Nyarlathotep's picture
Dan - Propositions 1, 2, 3, 4
Devans99's picture
Each proposition is a
David Killens's picture
@Dan
Devans99's picture
No. Each of 1-6 separately
arakish's picture
Then why have we observed
Nyarlathotep's picture
Step 1 - tell us an infinite
Devans99's picture
What I mean in the 2nd case
Nyarlathotep's picture
Dan - What I mean in the 2nd
Cognostic's picture
WOW! I wish you guys knew
Devans99's picture
1. You are missing my point;
David Killens's picture
@Dan
Devans99's picture
If big bangs are natural
Nyarlathotep's picture
Dan - If big bangs are
Devans99's picture
Space cannot double forever;
Nyarlathotep's picture
Dan - Space cannot double
Devans99's picture
Is it though? If you take
Nyarlathotep's picture
Dan - If you take expanding
Devans99's picture
An expansion is a contraction
Nyarlathotep's picture
Nyarlathotep - Consider two
LostLocke's picture
Maybe there are an infinite
Devans99's picture
Infinite time and naturally
LostLocke's picture
A big bang does not occur at
Devans99's picture
But a bug bang must occur at
LostLocke's picture
Any big bang, including our
Sapporo's picture
@Dan as @LostLocke says, the

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