Does showing your children biblical films go against Atheist principles?
Right here's the situation. At a village fete, a local church approached us. They said they were starting a playgroup and wondered if we would be interested in bringing our 18 month old son. We were polite took a leaflet and walked away. Afterwards my other half was saying it might be a good opportunity to socialise him with other kids. I raise concerns jokingly that they were trying to indoctrinate him (although many a serious things have been said in jest). We went to the first session and low and behold, the arts and crafts bit was making a Noah's rain cloud. I said my other half afterwards that I didn't want my son going and we can find him another playgroup. My better half agreed.
Fast forward a few months. I decided to put "The Prince of Egypt" on for my son. This is an animated movie about the story of the Exodus.
My other half walks through the door, inquired about what we were watching. Her reaction, laughing, "you had a problem with him going to the playgroup and now you're showing him biblical films?"
Now that's the point. I didn't want him go to the church playgroup but I had no problem to showing him films about the Bible.
Discuss.
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You can tell your child it’s a make-believe story, just like any other. The church group would likely say the stories are true. I think that’s the big difference.
I think it's still unintentional hypocrisy, given that the stories were the primary reason for removing them from the place, and not the people. If it were because the people, that's still a strange stance, given that quiet a few Christian parents isolate their kids too. Its the type of attitude that can make children resent those that are different. So I don't know. I think a worse lesson is learned that way. I mean idk if the child understands much yet, but if they do, what reason did you give them for why they aren't going back, if any?
Prince of Egypt isn't exactly "by the book" either. Its just a cartoon musical. I don't see the need to tell them its a made-up story, just like you don't have to tell them Frozen and Moana are made up. I doubt children would even care, unless you made it important.
@John B. Re: Unintentional hypocrisy
Crap, John. I grudgingly have to admit you do sorta have a bit of a good point there. That IS something of a "fine line", isn't it?
John:
At least Moses in "Prince of Egypt" looks like an Egyptian. As you say, it's just a story and doesn't really need any explanation any more than any other fantasy movie.
I'd have more trouble to explaining to kids why people in the 1950s thought Moses looked like Charlton Heston (or Genghis Khan like John Wayne).
That's true, although I'm of the belief that all of Hollywood is make-belief, and all actors are pretending to be something they're not. So a white pharaoh or a black George Washington is all the same to me.
@John Re: So a white pharaoh or a black George Washington is all the same to me
I don't know why, but that statement cracked me up a little. LMAO I don't know if you do it on purpose or not, but you have a pretty good dry sense of humor sometimes.
I listen to Creeping Death by Metallica, but not because I believe in the story of Passover. It's a damn good song, and I like it. Same goes for a good movie. I watched the Count of Monte Cristo movie and wasn't bothered a bit by the religious overtones.
What are "atheist principles"?
Dang-it, Chimp! You beat me to it. Was gonna ask about that myself because I got worried there for a second. Figured I might need to be looking for the guidebook or something so I could catch up on the rules. lol
Seriously, though, I think I kinda know what Agnost was getting at. Guessing he used "principles" for lack of a better word to try and convey a particular concept. Anyway...
Hey, Agnost, I have discovered that the great thing about being an atheist is that we can watch pretty much any damn thing we want. As long as the child is watching those type "religious" movies or reading those type books with the understanding they are only stories no different from any other fictional book, then what's the harm? Matter of fact, might even be healthy to point out the similarities in the bible stories to the stories of the Greek gods or Roman gods or any other gods and/or other religions of choice. Would help to reinforce that the bible is no more realistic than any other fictional tale. Just the humble opinion of a Person of Alloy.
I can borrow from any religion I choose to teach kids life's lessons. The Good Samaritan is a good one : Overcome the bigotries of your own culture and help some one out. Nothing wrong with that!
Yeah! Can we get an ironic "Amen" from everyone?
Agnostic Prophet,
Biblical films are mostly 100% pure BS and are fictional versions of the biblical stories. If you read the biblical version before seeing the film and make notes you can easily see where the films deviate.
*Disclaimer. This was written at the time of writing the OP. I am not morally conflicted, I just held this back to open debate.*
I said I had no problem with him watching biblical films, just I have no problem with him watching Hercules, Thor or any other sacred story, so long as they all presented in the same way. It is a good story, that makes a good film. At home it is just a film, at playgroup these stories would be presented of facts.
Basically, it's good to know the stories, but also know these stories are not facts.
Chimp3, you are right to ask 'what are "Atheist principles"?' Really there is only one principle, the lack of belief in God/s. Tin-man is correct, I used the word "principles" for want for a better word. John 6IX Breezy, I was expecting a theist to come out to call the hypocrisy, but I don't see it as hypocritical. I treat the stories of the Bible like any other ancient religious story. One day I show my son the Odyessy, which is about the Gods of Olympus, not mention other sacred stories. If I didn't show him Biblical films but was willing to show him other sacred stories THAT would make me a hypocrit.
@Agnost. Re: Hypocrisy
Excellent. Much clearer the way you just explained that.
That's not hypocrisy, otherwise Hindus would be hypocrites if they teach their kids their sacred stories but not Biblical ones. Hypocrisy doesn't work that way, it has an inherent quality of inconsistency. So it doesn't matter if you do or don't show them the Odyssey, what matters is that you didn't want them playing with Noah, then turned around and showed them Moses.
That's like me not wanting my kid to eat pizza at school, but the moment they get home I pop one in the oven.
Ok. Going on the Pizza analogy, if I know that the pizza at school is make with high saturated fat, for the sake of my son's health, I wouldn't would him to eat it, but at home, its homemade with the healthiest ingredients.
My problem with playgroup is tyey would be these stories as facts. And you're avout the hypocrisy of not showing biblical films. If I didn't show him Biblical films but was willing to him stories from other religions, I would singling out Christianity, that would be hypocrisy.
But you knew before you took him that they believed these things. So what changed? The only conflict you expressed in the OP was using Noah in arts and craft.
I didn't want him to go in the first place and my fears were confirmed, ie, they were trying to indoctrinate him.
I've been thinking about this Agnostic prophet for some days now. I ask you, were you worried that your child would be subjected to indoctrination because of the stories in that playgroup, or by the people that supervised it? With you watching the film with your child they would naturally cue off of your emotions and learn that some things are pure fantasy. It's like the Santa Clause game. At a certain age, long before we account for, children know for certain that there is no Santa, but they play the game and so do their parents. Now take those same children away from the guidance of their parents and subject them to endless fantasy being portrayed as reality, then they would naturally be brainwashed. Only you as a parent have the right and can actually know if it is alright with what you initially asked. Trust your own judgment.
I was worried about the people supervising the playgroup indoctrinating him rather than the stories themselves.
They make good stories and good films. Hence why have no problem with him watching these films.