Hey fellow Atheists.
I just have a question regarding the soul concept, as the ideas into it concern me..
One thing that worries me is the idea a life or soul is only in the brain, as one describes it, a hallucination: https://www.quora.com/If-consciousness-is-hallucinated-by-the-brain-who-...
I wouldn't call our lives a hallucination, this is extremely disturbing. As an atheist, I don't believe a life (as we experience it now) doesn't require a soul.
We're still individual lives that can be sentient and exist. I acknowledge it because I know I have something like a soul.
This doesn't require God OR an existence of an afterlife. Any thoughts?
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Well, I was the one who answered you in another post, and since you move this to a thread, I'll explain again :) It's a very interesting topic.
For me, as I said, it's just a product of our brains. But this does not make it less important or sadder... It's just that we have a very complex brain, and it produces the effect of a soul, meaning it's able to appear as independent from the body. This does not mean that it's just a hallucination (given that it's so intimately connected with the body, that a depression, for instance, can produce a visible effect in our body, such as an epidermic problem), but awesome!!!, how a huge net of neurons interconnected can accumulate and reproduce knowledge by speech and make us feel emotions.
Do you guys think that soul is a separate entity? And, in the sense Satanic is asking, do animals have souls?
I'm more curious to if advance AI will answer the profound questions...
I prefer to think of a "soul" as my internal consciousness that is the core of my morality, empathy, concern for others, compassion, sense of right and wrong, etc.
There are times that I am truly grateful that my internal consciousness is able to override my brain's wrong-headed thinking, beliefs, and impulses.
Where is your internal consciousness residing but in the brain? Its ALL the brain. What else could it be?
@Freefromgod
OK then ... provide the proof. While I agree that the brain MAY be needed to process the product(s) of consciousness, I believe that our (internal) consciousness (or lack thereof) is separate from the brain itself.
I currently have a brain tumor that is negatively affecting many of the functions of my brain. Yet, I still have the presence to know that committing serial murders is wrong. While, this may not be a valid scientific analysis, that does NOT make it untrue.
mbrownec, are you suggesting that consciousness is some kind of soul? If its not part of the body, then where did it come from? What happens to it after death? I'm not sure what your definition is. Here's a link that suggests a brain created consciousness.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/03/090316201459.htm
Its not proof, but its better evidence that the brain is the source of consciousness than any evidence you can provide that its not. I'm sticking with the most well supported answer rather than making something up.
@Freefromgod
Thank you for the linked article!
My father in law passed away in March from metastatic cancer, and although the primary tumour was believed to have been in his lung, it was the other two that caused the most chaos.
Firstly one in his spine that caused him no end of physically debilitating issues.
But the one in his brain had the most profound effect, causing him to lose basic motor functions at varying times but most notably, violent verbal outbursts which he would later have no idea about.
Clearly I'm no neurologist but it stunned me what the brain is capable of.
Sir, tumors are some of the best examples we have of how behavior and cognition are mapped unto the physical brain. Just by telling me that you still know that murder is wrong, allows me to guess fairly accurately that your tumor isn't near your frontal lobe.
Am I correct?
So, mbrownec, in that sense, would animals have souls?
Based on my knowledge at this point in time ... no.
Why wouldn't other animals have souls? Humans are just another animal. Are you saying humans have a soul because they are special?
Yes, it would seem problematic for humans to have a soul and animal to not have them.
I dont believe in a soul because I dont have any evidence to support such a belief. The brain produces such a sense of self that we attribute the idea of a soul to it.
What exactly IS a soul, anyway? Is it some sort of essence of who we are? If so, where was it prior to birth? Who created it? What happens to it when we die? These questions bring us into the realm of the supernatural, and that, my friends, is where I drawn the line.
Why stop at one soul if we are just going to make stuff up? Maybe we have 23.7 souls.
Ronnie Barker said shoes have souls
He was an atheist to the last.
Ronnie had a humanist funeral attended by Stephen Fry, Michael Palin and others. But later there was a memorial ceremony in Westminster Abbey where the procession of the cross was accompanied (of course) by four candles.
Perhaps we can replace the definition of a soul with consciousness? But interesting points. I'll be honest we only know so little, but I agree that the concept of a "soul" is a religious ideal.
Very good points. I wouldn't think a soul would argue any less our existence though. But this is a good discussion point for research perhaps.
I would like to believe we aren't that different from animals in those ways of life.
If we replace soul with consciousness then we have a product of the brain. We dont understand it fully yet, but all signs point to consciousness being an effect of the brain. We can learn more about this by studying neuroscience and psychology rather than anything metaphysical
@Mbrownec I currently have a brain tumor that is negatively affecting many of the functions of my brain. . Yet, I still have the presence to know that committing serial murders is wrong
I'm really really sorry for you and I hope you can recover your health as soon as possible.
Maybe the tumor is not affecting the regions in where some aspects of social behaviour -such as that- are installed. I've read that a tumor in the frontal lobe, can make you behave in unsuitable ways in a social situations, for example, becoming violent. So for me, your statement does not prove that you're social skills or your conciousness belong outside the brain...
I asked you about the (other) animals, because since mammals can have emotions, feel empathy, depression, hate, fear and pain, etc., the only difference I can see between us is the complexity of our brains and the creative possibilities that this brings us... But if we argue that we have souls (based on emotions and self-conciousness) they should have them too.
P.S. I want to add another article about 'conciousness' by Sam Harris to the debate: https://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-mystery-of-consciousness
@AngieBot I heard of something called brain plasticity, where other parts of your brain can develop the damaged part of your brain.
But a lobotomy removes the brain instead of damaging it slowly, much different from a tumor.
Satanic, thks. I agree. Brain plasticity is amazing!
What I meant is that Mbrownec holds that even having a tumor, he has his moral capacities intact, so moral should not be installed in his brain.
I was jus trying to explain that even in some types of tumor, social and moral capacities -if the region in the brain which controls that is undamaged- can remain identical.
I have a brain which is an organ in my body. I see no need to embellish that fact with soul concepts.
I believe that soul food exists.
MCD, could you spand on that? Do you mean fruits or cooked animals?