So recently a Christian friend of mine sent me a few testimonies of Muslim people who converted to Christianity after a supposed meeting with Jesus after a catastrophic event.
I noticed a few similarities and consistencies among them:
1) usually these people are in pain or in danger, they call out to Allah with no response
2) then they call out to Jesus, and suddenly a white light appears and communicates with them telling them it is Jesus
3) a disease they may have had is usually gone after this interaction, and they convert
4) sometimes they receive quotes from the Bible they didn't know about and then later verified it with the bible
Examples include:
Nassir Siddiki who was a Muslim, had shingles and brain damage, and about to die. He woke up in the middle of the night in his hospital bed, called out to Allah, Muhammad, no answer. Then to Jesus, a white light appeared and spoke to him naming Christian archangels and giving him bible versus. The next day he was doing better, he was allowed to go home. Then he was in the shower, prayed to Jesus again, and all his shingles (really severe and scars) were gone
Amy Ghazzal, a woman who claimed she had gall bladder stones, in a hospital in extreme pain called out to Jesus. Suddenly a light appeared and she could see the outline of the thorns in his head and the nails in his wrist. He spoke to her, and again quoted the bible, which she had never heard of and would later verify. As soon as the doctors came after, the gall stones were mysteriously gone.
Afshin Javid
Was a Hezbollah fighter from Iran, was arrested in Malaysia. In jail, he meditated, and said he came in contact with Djins or spirits. One was demonic and choked him. He called out to Allah, no answer, suddenly to Jesus, and then the evil spirit vanished. Then he got out of his trance, and noticed a light surrounding him, he asked who it was, and it replied "Jesus Christ" and said it was the way, the truth, the light. Then the next day a person gave him a bible to read, and he was able to understand it, despite not knowing English (which is what the bible he got was written in)
The thing is Jesus always appears to people in light form, and there are quite a few Muslim to Christian testimonies. The people cry so much in their videos, I just can't assume they are lying. If it were not true, why would these stories be so consistent with Muslim dieties not appearing, but Jesus appearing as a light and saving them, teaching them Christianity is true?
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Would you like to buy a bridge on the moon? It works in any language, and it has never been used; I'm willing to give you a great deal on it!
@Nyarlathotep,
but the thing is I bet if you saw the testimonies you would trust their sincerity.
@Russian-Tank
I bet you I wouldn't. I'm a skeptic at heart, you are credulous at heart. Nothing wrong with that, but don't make any large purchases without consulting a skeptic first :)
@Nyarlathotep, why then do so many people report calling out to Jesus and seeing a bright light that communicates with them? It just sounds too consistent to be fake.
Russian-Tank,
Let us know when Jesus appears to you. Then call a news conference with a lot of witnesses and cameras and command a tree to uproot itself and to jump into the nearest body of water and the tree does as you have commanded it to do without any outside help. If all of the witnesses see that and record it on video we'll go from there. You will have been the only person in human history who has ever had faith in the Jesus character.
@ RT
Here we go again. A load of made up crap Youtube videos, each thread you bring more outre than the last.
RT, personal testimony is not proof or even evidence of anything except your viewing habits. Whatever answers you had to your last threads? Repeat them to yourself.
No.
Supposed testimonies of ex-Muslims do not prove Christianity. Possibly they really believe what they think happened to them, but it doesn't prove a thing.
Neither would testimonies of ex-atheists converting to Christianity (or Islam for that matter).
Even claims of Christians having raptures and ecstasies or suffering visitations to hell, could not prove Christianity.
Testimonies are claims, not proof.
The related experiences remind me of St. Paul's road to Damascus experience, the bright light and the voice. Did any of the ex-Muslims suffer temporary blindness? Paul had no witnesses to call on, to corroborate his story, and there were at least three different versions in Acts, but no doubt they would have made very popular you tube vids, for you to watch, leaky as sieves though they all were.
@Grinseed
but Siddiki had pics of his shingles they were life threatening and he was close to dying. Yet, he had a vision of at least what he thought was Jesus, was told Christian things, and the next day in the shower talked to Jesus and his shingles (the worst kind) were all gone.
@ Russian Tank
Testimonies are 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% hearsay. Hearsay is the worst form of evidence. Hearsay is not admissible as evidence.
I saw Heysoos hitchhiking on the road just the other day. Prove me wrong.
rmfr
@arakish
so your explanation is just simply that Javid, Siddiki, and Ghazal lied? It just seems too easy to say that. I just can't get over the consistency of people reporting seeing a light that talks to them, and then Siddiki got fully cured when shingles as bad as his cannot.
Russian-Tank, congratulations!
You must be able to save a lot of money since you and your family will never need to see a doctor or go to a hospital.
Just call out to Jesus! LOL!
@CHK-C the thing is I know you could argue that Jesus should show up to everyone, or even devout Christians dying or getting killed or even children being raped that call out to him, but then a few of these videos depict Muslims calling out to him and getting a reply, and the Siddiki case just seems so impossible otherwise, including the consistency like I said of Jesus always apparently appearing as a light to Christians and non-Christians when they have testimonies.
Russian-Tank, so Jesus selectively helps some Muslims in order to convert them? You mean like an insurance company offering a great deal to lure customers to switch? LOL!
As for the Siddiki case, it's funny that you choose to believe something that you admit is 'so impossible'.
@CHK-C so do you think he lied then?
Russian-Tank, he may have lied, he may have exaggerated, or somebody just made the whole thing up.
If a Muslim claims that he was a Christian, and converted to Islam because Allah performed a miracle on him, would you believe him?
@CHK-C I would say it has just as good a chance as Jesus. I am just wondering, did you see the video though, he even has a wikipedia page and his own website as an evangelist, I just am doubting why a person would lie so drastically.
Russian-Tank, answer my question first.
Would you believe someone who claims to have converted from Christianity to Islam because of Allah's miracle?
@CHK-C yes I would believe in Allah's miracle just as much as Jesus's miracle. It's just I haven't seen non-Muslims converting bc of calling out to Allah and getting a response, but I definitely would trust it just as much as Jesus.
Russian-Tank, you're basically admitting that you're very gullible, but thanks for being honest.
@CHK-C I just don't think people would lie such dramatic lies like that. I see consistency and people just say it's bullshit but no one attempts to say why these consistencies are so prevalent
Russian-Tank, you choose to believe something even you deem to be 'so impossible' rather than considering the much more plausible explanation --> it's a lie.
Well, I guess that's why you're a believer and I'm not.
As for your OP, no, they don't prove Christianity.
We've explained it many times to you over the years; I'm convinced you want to believe this non-sense, and that is why you keep going back to it.
So when Nasir Siddiki "developed" shingles? Are we sure it was not inflicted by god? Nasir's ancestor was best buddies with Mohammed? Of course, why not believe that? Are shingles fatal? Not for someone in his age group.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrKqqbSbK98
@David Killens, so do you really think Siddiki lied then? The thing is I saw that fake ex-muslim exposed video, and it seems like maybe the author of it was slightly grasping at straws, like saying Siddiki prayed incorrectly when it was clearly an actor (not Siddiki himself) praying. Another thing though that doesn't make sense is that Siddiki said he called out to Muhammad, and Muslims never do that or seek a Prophet for miracle help. Also, the thing is his shingles are fully gone now. Usually there should still be a scar. Christians on that video's comment say the youtuber is over exaggerating and many Muslims say Siddiki lied, so I'm not sure what to believe. It's just his depiction of Jesus is consistent with Ghazal's, Javid's, and some others.
Shingles should not leave any scars. I live in Toronto and could visit the hospital he claimed he was in. But confidentiality rules will not allow the hospital to release any information. Therefore his entire story can not be verified.
Doesn't it seem funny that he had a condition that is not life threatening, yet he claims he was on his death bed? Doesn't it seem funny that he had few visitors, despite the fact that shingles in not an air borne contagious disease? The staff would not have to wear any protective equipment.
Basically not one iota of his story can be verified, and that he had certain rare conditions outside of the normal frame work of shingles? It could be true, it could be a complete fabrication. I will withhold judgement until I can get verification.
Russian-Tank, what should you believe? Only what can be verified.
@David Killens,
I see, but can you dismiss the consistency of Christian's and non Christian's saying Jesus came to them in the form of a light when they asked for help?
Russian-Tank, when most people talk about aliens, almost all have the very same mental picture of such a being. That is because we are constantly exposed to others who assert something all the time. Over the years, more and more people accept those stores until they become common in what people expect.
There are some theists who come from churches where it is expected you roll around on the ground and act hysterical. Why is that? It is because they have been exposed to such behaviors and they do the same when it's their turn to act out.
It is expected that when one sees what they believe is jesus, that there is light. What would you expect, darkness?
Muslim ----> Christian visions/conversions are not the only way things go. I wish I could remember the specifics, but when I was in a university course that studied aboriginal religions, we watched videos of testimonies. The aboriginal community we were looking had a religion that revolved around ancestor worship. There were others in the community who were Christian. Multiple of these Christians had visions of their ancestors. They claimed that these ancestors told them things there's no way that they could have known and that they were left in awe. They abandoned Christianity and joined in the religion of ancestral worship.
Were they liars? I doubt it. They were obviously deeply moved and believed what they were saying. That doesn't mean the experiences were real.
As a side note: An embarrassing story of my own. As a straight up atheist, I once sincerely believed in demons for a whole 12 hours. I experienced sleep paralysis for the first time in my life and let me tell you - that shit feels real. I can still remember it so clearly, and it felt REAL. I was laying in bed, my eyes still closed, but I could feel my body's weight against the mattress and the coolness of my sheets. As far as I could tell, I'd just woken from a good night's sleep. Then without warning, a loud, disembodied growl rushed toward my head (I had directional hearing), swooped over the bed and across the room, then turned around & returned to the bed where it laughed maniacally. It ended as quickly as it started. My heart was pounding out of my chest and I was TERRIFIED. But I couldn't move. Literally. A few moments later, when my body finally woke, I was shaking like a leaf.
I learned later that sleep paralysis happens when your mind and body sort of wake up at different levels. So while my body was still totally paralyzed by sleep, my mind was both in touch with the real world and also capable of hallucinating at the same time. This felt nothing like a dream. I'd swear I could feel the growl in my ears. I have never been so scared in my life.
It took some time for me to come down off of my adrenaline and realize that no matter how real that felt, it wasn't real. Tons of people have had similar experiences with sleep paralysis.
Our brains are powerful and can be great at fooling us.