Hello everyone.
My name is Ida and I am 28 years old. I used to be an agnostic, turned atheist and for the for the past two years I have (after some of the worst times of my life) been Chrstian. I have alwasy been spiritual and belive everything is connected. But for the past week I have been having doubts.
When I check with my self I have to admit that I do not belive that Jesus is the son of God, the he rose from the dead and in terms of their being a God I simply do not know.
I do belive Jesus was a great man and spiritual advicer. I have recently come out as bisexual and also have started a new health journey where I need to loose 55 kg. I have already lost 4 kg and feel a lot better. And I wonder weather everything I have been through is shifting my perspective. When I first started to have these thoughts I had just read Stephen Hawkin`s latest book (that I loved) and also tried VR where "I went to space" - something I have always wanted to do and it was magical. I have always loved sience and I do belive in the evolution just to make that clear.
So I don`t relay know what to do, where to go or what to think. Dose anyone have some advice? Or has someone here been through something similiar?
Kind regards and
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Not sure how helpful this is: but that sounds a lot like Unitarianism. If you deiced that church/religion is for you, maybe you should try a Unitarian church.
Hopefully someone will post something more helpful soon.
Thanks. I might look into that. :)
Hi Ida , Thank you for posting your story , The best advice I can give you is that It's a long journey you need to take your time for criticizing and see the contradictions whatever it's morals or values or even epistemological thing ... Doubts are healthy that's a fact Without doubts we wouldn't have this modern age ! You can read about the philosophers who are the founders of our modern age ( That's my second advice ) , I think "Epistemology " gonna give you a real perspective for everything even religions all of them considering to be in a Idealism side * Idealism in knowledge not a moral thing * then the most important thing you need to understand how we should recognize science ! ... That's actually helped me a lot ... Other thing about your sexuality You should accept it for long time but of course it's never too late ! Why ? Because either it's natural or neutral it's out of your well as an individual ! Nothing wrong with it at all from any perspective
Hello. Thank you for such and insightfull replay. I have ignored and batteled agains my sexuality for about 6 years before I accepted it in january of this year. My family and close friends know and also (thank fully) are very supportive. I do highly appriciate sience and as of now do not know weather I want to be religious. I dont know if I belive in God anymore and that was also a hard battle for me two years ago - to admit I beliveded. Now everything just feels like a mess and I do not know what to think....
I do also know a great deal about philosophy and history. I have studied both at University along with my librarian education. So I think you might be right about it being a long journey. Because I do not think christianity or any other religion is something we can pick up when we need it most and then discard it later. But like I said... I have no idea... #confused.
Elvira: First, you were never once agnostic. You are still agnostic. You may be agnostic Christian or agnostic Atheist but you are agnostic. Gnosis means "Knowledge." At no point, christian or not, did you have any "Knowledge" of God or gods that could stand up to critical inquiry. There has never been such knowledge. Agnosticism is about what you know. Atheism is about what you believe.
"I have always been spiritual." You would have to define "Spirit" for anything you said to make sense. When we get right down to it, "Spirit" generally means, "I have no idea what happened so I call it "spirit." You would have to prove something called spirit is real before I would accept that you are this thing you call "spiritual." (Do you mean, you have an over active imagination?)
Everything is connected? Hmmm..... Does that explain why I can;t get this pelican out of my ear, or why my navel shines like a star?
"I do not believe that Jesus is the son of God," Not even all Christians believe that, but you are off to a good start. Jesus might be the adopted son of God since he was adopted at his baptism. (Read the Bible). Then again there are sects that believe he became a god during his assertion into heaven. Paul doesn't even believe Jesus ever had a ministry or walked on the earth. Paul's Jesus is a spiritual being. (Read Your Bible) There is also the ever popular virgin birth story. There are several to choose from. I like the one in the cave with the midwife finding out Mary was a virgin after the birth. It's just so much more magical. Well.... then of course...... there is the possibility that Jesus just never existed. There are a shitload of made up stories about Jesus after all. And no stories about him during the time he lived. It's a bit of a problem.....
I do belive Jesus was a great man and spiritual adviser. Why? Do you have any evidence at all for that assertion. Jesus, that man who tells you to hate your family to follow him. The guy who says "think not of tomorrow." The magic man who wastes all his power chasing pigs over a cliff instead of giving us the germ theory of disease or explaining that the earth is round? This is a great man? Have you not set the bar extremely low? Just asking.
"I have recently come out as bisexual and also have started a new health journey where I need to loose 55 kg." *CONGRATULATINS* At least something REAL is going on in your life. There may be help for you yet.
Not Knowing What to think is a GREAT PLACE TO BE. There is so much we do not know about the world we live in. It's sad that you had to wait so long to get hit with this but in all fairness, that is what happens when you wander around in a religious delusion, thinking you know the answers. for years and years. You end up pretending that there are things like Gods and spirits and magical prayers and forces influencing you and the world over which you have no control... Pop your head up for just a moment and it all vanishes. All you are left with is what is real.
A wise Buddhist once confirmed that the journey would be long. It extends all the way from one ear to the other. How long you take to get there is up to you.
"And I wonder weather everything I have been through is shifting my perspective." HUH??? What kind of philosophy did you study? OF COURSE EVERYTHING YOU GO THROUGH SHIFTS YOUR PERSPECTIVE. You have no choice. Are you the person you were when you were 5? Are the person you were when you were 10? Are you the person you were when you were 20? Of course perspectives shift as you experience the world around you and learn and grow. Isn't this "PROPERLY BASIC?"
Of course you can pick up Christianity when you need it and drop it off when you don't. Jesus, if he existed at all, wasn't a complete dolt. "Love your Enemy" was perhaps the stupidest expression ever uttered by anyone pretending to be wise. At the same time, and though Jesus was not the first to say it, "Treat other as you would have them treat you." is pretty good. Like any ideology, you take from Christianity that which is good and you leave the shit behind. You do the same with Buddhist, Taoist and Hindu thought. That's just what wise people do in life.
You are in a great spot to start learning that.
Good Luck!
You're absolutely welcome , I'm glade that my respond was good enough to your case , I believe in you Keep going ❤
"All we are is the result of what we think. Nothing is as harmful as your own thoughts" You want a long journey, so be it. (Why not an exciting journey, an amazing journey, or an educational journey?) And when you get there, what do you think you will do next? You will likely kick yourself in the ass for not doing this much of the journey sooner. Isn't that what you are doing now? The "Journey" is all there is. Why do you imagine there is someplace to go? What you are is what you have been. What you’ll be is what you do now. You can choose to move forward or you can choose to stay and wait.. It does not matter. In ether case the Journey continues. You only get to choose the direction. Being confused is just a choice to stay where you are. You are not confused. You have 55 kg to lose. You have your new and open sexuality to explore. And, as you are a librarian, you know how to use a frigging card cataloger and find some of the answers you seek. I read 3 books this week. Pagels "Nostic Gospels," Atheist Universe, and Pragmatics of Human communication. There is a world of things to learn out there. How does a librarian and philosopher NOT KNOW THIS?
This, in my opinion, is what happens when you bury your nose in religion. You forget who you are. And when you drop the faith, you are lost. So religion was a part of your journey, as it was a part of mine, what's next? And finally it is always better to travel well - ( *There is no end. )
Hello.
Thanks for the long replay. First off I have read many things and am not at all stuck in relgion as you say. I am a very reflected person witch is why I ended up here in the first place. There is no point i being mad at a person for taking their time.
Philosopher, huh? Thanks. :)
And just to point it out I read all of 56 books last year and 13 so far this year all of various topics.
I am all up for discussions. Don`t be to quick to attack. I hope to have an open and friendly place here.:)
You missed every single point being made. Literally missed them. Get over your ego and try again. There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING "attacking" in anything at all that was said. NOTHING. There is only your defensive fragile state of perception. Try again or just ignore it and "Stay Where You Are."
LETS EVEN PARAPHRASE THE POSTS:
1. You are confused about the word agnostic. (Not an attack - a fact)
2. You think you are spiritual - (What does that mean? Mostly " nothing." - again a fact and not an attack. Unless you think you can define it.)
3. Everything is connected? A Woo-Woo claim you would have to prove. Again, can you prove it? (No one attacked you. It is an unsubstantiated assertion. )
4. You think Jesus is a great man. I disagree and regard him, if he existed at all, as a moronic dolt who happened to repeat a few insightful things he heard. (How is that an 'ATTACK" against you. I pointed out 2 stupid things Jesus did and one positive thing he said.)
5. You want to lose 55KG and you recently came out bisexual. Did you miss the capitalized letters "CONGRATULATIONS?" How in the fuck do you regard support as an attack? After all the other inane assertions, it's nice to see you are actually focused on something real. You have a direction.
6. "Not Knowing What to think is a GREAT PLACE TO BE." You are the one claiming you are confused. HOW IN THE HELL DID YOU MISS THIS. Not knowing is the beginning of any journey. HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLY FEEL ATTACKED? Are you one of those "snowflakes?" Wow, I could not believe I insulted you by saying, "There is so much we do not know about the world we live in." And by the way, what in the fuck was I thinking when I agreed with you and asserted, "Everything you have been through is shifting your perspective." Isn't this one of the first lessons anyone would glean from a philosophy class? OF COURSE EVERYTHING YOU EXPERIENCE AFFECTS YOU. So agreeing is Attacking!
7. "All we are is the result of what we think. Nothing is as harmful as your own thoughts" You want a long journey, so be it. (Why not an exciting journey, an amazing journey, or an educational journey?)
Oh fuck, I am an asshole for suggesting your journey does not to be long or hard. I am a real jerk for pointing out that you have a choice. What an asshole I am.
8. And then I fucking doubled down and told you there was not end to the journey, that there is only a choice in direction. WHAT AN OUTRAGEOUS ATTACK ON YOUR FRAIL EGO!!! HOW DARE I CREATE OPTIONS AND CONTRADICT YOUR ASSERTION. Oh! I will flagellate myself for this one.
9. And I am a total JERK by attacking you and stating the obvious "You are not confused. You have 55 kg to lose. You have your new and open sexuality to explore. And, as you are a librarian, you know how to use a frigging card cataloge and find some of the answers you seek." NOT ONLY DO YOU HAVE GOALS but you have the MEANS TO END ANY CONFUSION." Sorry for being so fucking positive! How dare me attack your depression and depressed and despondent perception of yourself with facts that you stated.
10: "Why does a philosopher / librarian not know this?" How in the hell is this not a completely appropriate question? How in the fuck would you consider it an attack. It is a validation of your abilities and an inquiry into the reason YOU ARE NOT USING THEM. You are the one asserting that you are educated and well read. YOU HAVE EVERYTHING YOU NEED RIGHT AT YOUR FINGER TIPS.
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Agnostic atheism - I need to read more on this. :)
I would advise you to be very honest with yourself. Look past the fact that so many others are delusional. If you are having doubts, it’s your bullshit alarm going off. Ask yourself what makes more sense, that we are born, live as long as we can, and die? Or, that we die, and depending on if we kissed ass enough, go live for eternity in a magical heaven? I know it’s hard to believe that so many people believe in religious garbage (my opinion) but you have to think for yourself, and when you walk away from the bullshit, you walk away from all of it! You can’t have it both ways. You can’t think that there’s a “spiritual world “ if you don’t believe in spirits. Take some time and think for yourself.
Good advice - thank you. :)
Hi El,
I hope everything has calmed down for you a little. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and concerns.
"Now everything just feels like a mess and I do not know what to think...."
This sounds like you are having a hard time coping, period. Not just about what you should or should not believe. Many, many people have a hard time dealing with societal pressures from day to day...in other words, they are sensitive to everything that bombards them just from daily living. That is me too, and my wife...cripes, even our dog runs to us when he is confused. The human brain is a wonderful thing, however, the amount of different things it can work on simultaneously is just one. One thing. With trying to please everyone you encounter, and trying to resolve everyone else's issues, one person can easily become overwhelmed...especially when humans can only physically resolve one thing at a time. Therein lies the answer. Just live. Forget about religion, forget about atheism, forget about all the things that really do not have any bearing on daily life. When I become overwhelmed, I do just that. I focus on the things that are important in my life, my wife, dog children, and work. That's it. Work, eat sleep, help your family and any spare time, do things for yourself that make you happy. At some point you will realize that you are no longer overwhelmed. Only at this point, should you consider other things, that have no real bearing in your life.
When someone says to me, you should try this, or do this, or be this way, I generally say...if I need it, I will seek it out...and if it has merit, I will decide if it's true, important or needs to be part of my life. Blindly doing or believing what others say, is a recipe for disaster in your life. So always think first.
Hello.
This is such a good point. The last two years of my life has been the hardets of my life. Moving to another part of the country to work then where my family is from. Away from friends, loosing to loved once 6 months apart and everything in between. I am just now climinng out of the cave and are seeing happiness and light again. And of course this is when my brain starts to digg. I also have dog, such a wonderful creature - she knows when Im tired and upset and dose her best to help. I happy to be on my way out of the mess but that is of course often the time you start to feel the toil of it all... I hope you and your family are good and that you are currently enjoying life.^^
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Thanks for the wishes...we are all fine. Nice looking dog...poodles are one of the smartest breeds...I bet she is atheist. :P
Happy Tuesday Elvira!
I was a devout Catholic for over 40 yrs. I now identify as an athiest.
The Unitarian church (Most attendees at my church are athiest) has provided me with intellectually stimulating conversations and a great support system.
Elvira,
Hello Elvira.
Hope you are able to work through your many problems. Maybe you should establish a budget so that you can better manage your efforts. Think about what you see as your biggest problem. Is it your weight? Is it your religious questions? Is it your relationships? Is it your loneliness? Is It your fear of death?
Once you have clearly identified your bigesst problem and ranked all of your other concerns in order of importance you can then start to create a plan of action. Then spend 80% of your discretionary time on resolving your biggest problem, whatever it is. You should soon start to see improvement if you stay focused. Once you are comfortable with your results then you can repeat the process on your second biggest problem and so on through your list.
To make it work you will have to be completely honest with yourself and start being your own best friend. Don't allow yourself to betray you. So I suggest that you get a pen and some paper and write down your concerns. Later on you can add your preferred outcomes and possible courses of action to achieve them. Give it a try and good luck and treat yourself nice.
Hello. Thanks for great advice - this is a trick I want to use. :)
Everytime I moved, I immediately joined a church to meet people in the community.
I would suggest looking for some group you can join. As you say that you need to lose weight, I might suggest an exercise group. I am the nominal president of a local hiking club.
Exercise has also been to help with depression.