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"If you had retracted your comment and maybe even apologized, then I would have treated you very different. But you did not, and you even attempted to blame someone else."
Random Side note: When Adam was asked by God why he ate the apple, his response was Eve, the woman You gave to me, made me do it!
When Adam was given the chance to own up to his own actions and ask for forgiveness, he instead blamed his helpmate. I wonder what would have happened had he owned up to it....?
@rat spit
Atheism is about a lack of belief in gods, that is it.
I believe our minds are our Consciousness, when we die that is it.
No matter how many times you and the other theists try this argument from ignorance fallacy, the burden of proof here is yours.
The human brain exits and so do human thoughts, when the physical brain ceases to exists so the thoughts it produces, if you're going to add something unevidenced and supernatural it get's Hitchens's razor, also Occam's razor applies.
The rest of your post is woo woo gibberish, so I can make no observation.
Hi Sheldon. Glad you finally chimed in. But I’m gunna have to stop you right there. I didn’t ask in the OP if a supernatural consciousness exists outside the body.
I asked a simple question regarding perception and appearance. And since you’re participating in this thread, I would like to hear your philosophical stance on perception and it’s reproduction of the appearance of forms. Are you, in other words, a solipsist or not?
There is no philosophy on perception, it is one of the body's mechanical functions.
I am not a solipsist, nor do I believe that my thoughts have some external supernatural cause, as no one can demonstrate any objective evidence for this claim. What is more the claim is adding assumption to two objective facts, that the physical brain exists, and that the evidence we have shows thoughts are present only while that brain is alive and functioning. You can pile these claims end to end, it won't change the fact you can demonstrate no objective evidence for it, and just keep coming back to this fallacious argument from ignorance to try and reverse the burden of proof.
@Sheldon Cooper
I am actually com”pile”ing a theory of depth perception (sound or sight) that leads to something other than solipsism.
And if you claim to not be a solipsist, then kindly add to this series of thoughts and show, if you care to, that depth perception is not merely another construction of the internal workings of the brain - emphasis on “if you care to”. If you “do not” - kindly express that, please.
I'm not claiming that thoughts exists when and only when a functioning brain exist, these are objective facts, but by all means demonstrate an example that shows human thoughts occurring without a functioning physical brain. Or any objectove evidence for anything supernatural ever.
All you have offered thus far is a tedious repetition of this argument ad ignorantiam fallacy in an attempt to reverse the burden of proof. Maybe you should Google common logical fallacies, then Google philosophical epistemology and the burden of proof. That'd be a good start for you. As all you;re doing is chasing your rat's tail around and around and around, as if this represents profundity we have failed to notice each new time you repeat it.
@Sheldon Coooper
Really? I think you’re just avoiding the question. How is depth perception possible without an illusionary brain framework? In other words, is solipsism the case?
You’re clearly evading the question. And I am clearly not attempting to prove anything or (either) shift the burden of proof.
You simply won’t admit you’re a solipsist and have no answer to the problem of distance and perception.
How in the hell am I pushing an agenda here? I’m asking simple, but pertinent questions. Admit you don’t have the answers!
Sounds like the 'simulation hypothesis'. Deja vu happens when they messed up and have to load a saved game.
It seems to me, and from what I've read of people who are far more intelligent than I, that there's no way to prove that the world really is "out there". There's a possibility that we're all living in a simulation. Or that our brains are in vats, Matrix-style. But while all of that is possible and I'm aware of that, I live as if the world is real. It seems the most useful way to live.
@Jade
I am starting to agree with your first observation. I don’t believe in simulations or vats however. I believe evolution has done a meticulous job aligning our senses with the outside world.
Some questions might be - why five senses? Is five a limit set by nature or evolution (as far as mammals and many animals go - ie. not bats or dolphins).
And finally. What about the illusion of depth? Is it really an illusion? How has reality enabled evolution to produce senses that accurately mimic distance and space?
Ratty ratty ratty ratty. 5 senses? Really? Have you not read a book since primary school. Human beings are host to over 20 different senses. Let's start with the basics... Sight, hearing, taste, touch, and smell. Now we are going to get into the really neat biological and psychological stuff....
1. A sense of balance and acceleration. (vestibular senses for equilibrioception.)
2. A sense of temperature. (Thermoception ) Regulation of internal body temperature.
3. A sense of time. (Chronoception ) the suprachiasmatic nucleus, is responsible for the circadian (or daily) rhythm, while other cell clusters appear to be capable of shorter-range (ultradian) timekeeping.
4. The kinesthetic sense: Proprioception. Movement and relative positions of the parts of the body. You can close your eyes and touch your nose. You move your body in a crowd so as not to bump into others.
Body Awareness.
6. A sense of psychological pain (Nociception) Empathy is real.
7. Sexual stimulation: Distinct from the general sense of touch, sexual stimulation is strongly tied to hormonal activity and chemical triggers in the body. Physical stimulation is not necessarily required for orgasm.
8. A sense of Hunger: Hunger helps regulate energy homeostasis in the body.
9. A sense of oxygen levels in the brain. (I shit you not.) Ever had that sense of gasping for air while falling asleep as if you have forgotten to breath? You body is sensing its oxygen level.
10. The Vomit sense: Something is sensing when it's time to throw a cookie. It's an area of the medulla in the brain that receives inputs from blood-borne drugs or hormones. It senses the wrong shit in your body and you can just bend over and wait for the reaction.
11. We have a very strong sense of AGENCY: This allows you to believe the Overlord is behind the scene pulling the strings. It allows you to experience the subjective feeling of having chosen a particular action when you did not.
12. We have a sense of familiarity: That's why you can pick out the Overlord at a cocktail party full of a thousand other gods, notice he has had a bit too much to drink and feel like rescuing him.
13. Echolocation: The ability of humans to detect objects in their environment by sensing echoes from those objects, by actively creating sounds: (IT'S REAL and has been studied since the 1950's.)
Many other's are obscure body regulation senses but you get the drift. Science is studying all of these senses in an effort to discover human capabilities and just what makes us tick. I suppose I should add one more, just to make my point - "more than 20, then again - you know how to use google with your little mousy paws.... A sense of pride? A sense of being insulted? A sense of déjà vu perhaps?
I don't believe there's a unified 'atheist view' on anything other than the disbelief in the existence of god(s).
@CHK-C
Please refer to Cog and David’s “Atheist Ass Whooping” in earlier posts on this thread.
I have been made painfully aware of this point.
The subject, therefore is an open discussion of perception and appearance - in general - with specific reference to the nature of depth perception.
Thank you
@rat
If that's the case, you might want to change the title of this thread.
Are living things reactive with their surroundings? Yes, I think so. Do to their actions while reacting to the environment. Do living things react to things that are not present in their surroundings.Some living things do...yes, I think so. Do to their or other peoples previous experiences, and do to beliefs. I can see reacting to a baseball foul flying at you from a foul swing while at the game. I can also see reacting to the ticket agent, when knowing the tickets he is offering, are in a section prone to lots of foul balls, and asking for different seats. We use reason to react to things that are not present in our present surroundings. Where does the act of reasoning originate? If you personally had never been to a ball game ever or not know about foul balls, you would buy the original tickets offered. Again, where does the act of reasoning originate? Ok, I'm done. BTW atheism doesn't have a viewpoint on anything other than gods existence, let alone consciousness.
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