Challenge: What beneficial aspect of religion cannot be replaced by secular means?
This one comes from Godless Cranium.
He also lists the ground rules that apply to this post, so listen carefully...
rmfr
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World's shortest thread.
There is a beneficial aspect to religion? Can you prove that?
Is a delusional state of euphoria positive?
1. A burning bush that talks
2. A deceptive talking serpent (Granted, the "benefit" on that one is questionable.)
3. Highly advanced ship building skills
4. The ability to walk on water (Only for a select few, of course.)
5. All-you-can-eat fish and bread buffet (Oh, with complementary bottomless wine glass.)
6. No-sex pregnancies (No, wait. Whoops. My bad. We can actually do that now.)
7. Talking donkeys (Honestly, who WOULDN'T want a talking donkey? And today's science certainly hasn't bothered with any research on the matter.)
8. Miracles (Which, in reality, relying on them is almost as much fun and about as productive as playing at the roulette tables in Vegas.)
9. 72 virgins paid upon death (Cha-CHING!)
Aaaaaaand #10. *drum roll*...................... The cathartic relief of being allowed to throw rocks at smart-ass bratty kids who refuse to obey their parents.
I' m at work you bastard and read that, went out to do a scene, laughing so hard internally I totally forgot my fucking lines....you are sooooo dead TM. Then of course I corpsed in front of a roomful of spellbound ausience....not in charcater at all.....dead, you are....
@Old Man Re: Blowing your lines
https://youtu.be/NjYwnlcV8j0
Actually religion has been the glue holding communities together for centuries.
You guys are being smug and ignorant if you can't acknowledge the beneficial aspects of religion.
Here I also include godless religions so to speak eg Japanese religions etc and atheist religions like Buddhism.
Terminal Dogma,
"You guys are being smug and ignorant if you can't acknowledge the beneficial aspects of religion."
Religious people are still killing people they call witches. Is that beneficial?
@Terminal Dogma
"Actually religion has been the glue holding communities together for centuries. "
But religion is not alone in that. Go to any city with a major sport team ....
Re: TD - "Actually religion has been the glue holding communities together for centuries."
Hmmm.... Wonder if flies feel the same way about fly paper? *scratching chin*
"Actually religion has been the glue holding communities together for centuries."
" religion has been the glue holding communities together for centuries."
Wouldn't this also be true of things like nationalism, xenophobia, racism, bigotry, sectarianism as a few examples? Just because something bands people together doesn't make it good or moral, and especially doesn't make it true.
Also I believe the op is asking what good religion has done that secularism couldn't. So societal cohesion is not a credible claim, since many secular societies exist. The US constitution is secular for a start. Indeed secular governments are the best protection for people's right to believe whatever religion they want, or none at all of course.
Terminal Dogma @ Actually religion has been the glue holding communities together for centuries.
You guys are being smug and ignorant if you can't acknowledge the beneficial aspects of religion. @
This misses the point, which is: "What beneficial aspect of religion cannot be replaced by secular means?"
The very question implies that religions have beneficial aspects. We are being asked, of those, which ones cannot be replaced by secular means, (ie. which of the benefits CANNOT be achieved without using religion?).
Tin-Man gave a nice starting list of 10. Oh, wait, I think that was sarcasm - implying that the 10 are not beneficial at all.
How about someone make a genuine list of genuine benefits, which rely on religion for their achievement? Then lets see if the "genuine" list is of real benefits, and only achievable through religions.
Best wishes,
Mu.
@Mutorc Re: "Tin-Man gave a nice starting list of 10. Oh, wait, I think that was sarcasm - implying that the 10 are not beneficial at all."
WHAT????.... ME???... Using sarcasm???.... NOOOooooooo........ *feigned look of shock/surprise*
And, really, c'mon! What is NOT beneficial about a talking donkey or being able to walk on water? Get with the program here. Think outside the box a little..... *mumbling to self*... (These youngsters nowadays. No imagination.)...*shaking head sadly*
Edit to add:
WHOOPS! Just noticed on Mutorc's profile that he's not a youngster. He's actually an old fart. Sorry about that, Mutorc! Not gonna change my post, though. It's funnier the way it is. LOL
Just to make a correction ... Japanese religions believe in the shinto gods.... Amaterasu etc...... buddhism is an agnostic religion.... not atheistic... (it neither supports nor rejects gods)..... Jainism is considered an atheistic religion. However none of them are devoid of dogma and nonsensical traditions that overtime have become detrimental to personal or societal evolution.
The thread is not about the ways in which religion has caused harm it's about the beneficial aspects. If you can't think of any beneficial aspects and can only focus on the harmful aspects you are either not trying or are blinded by bias.
For a lot of believers they get tangible benefits of well being and support they don't get elsewhere.
Atheism is distinct from antitheism....I'm an atheist.
No, the thread is about the beneficial aspects of religion that cannot be replaced by secular means.
Right, and secular communities with strong bonds definitely can and do exist. Hell, look at us! I'd like to think we like each other at least a little. And if that's not good enough, look at Scandinavia. Mostly secular. Ireland. Secular. New Zealand. Secular. Religion is overrated and replaceable.
@Terminal Dogma "Actually religion has been the glue holding communities together for centuries."
Sociologically and Anthropologically speaking, we actually do have cultures that had no religion. "The Pirahã are an indigenous people of the Amazon Rainforest in Brazil for example. They managed to stay together for survival.
Human beings are social animals. Yes, religion has been used to hold tribes of ignorant people together as it offers them superstition and answers that hold them together. It also makes them different than their neighbors and leads to war. On top of that, we have examples of people who manage to stay together as a community without religion.
Religion is not necessary for keeping communities of people together though it may be mystically and magically convenient.
BENEFITS OF RELIGION:
1. The Golden Rule: If you give the Church your gold, you can rule after you die.
2. Creating ethics and morality in society by killing off the witches, homosexuals, and soon to be atheists.
3. Religions build inner strength so you can rely on faith and belief no matter what the facts are.
4. Religion delivers the message of forgiveness so you can pray to a magical being and never have to worry about the people you hurt.
5. Religion satisfies mankind's thirst for knowledge by filling his brain with bullshit.
6. Religions teach "Selfless Service" to the lord (AKA; Free Labor for the church.)
7. Religious Music: My favorite religious song; "“Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us – he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.” (Psalm 137:9)
How about the ever popular, chart topping "Let the praises of God be in their throat and a two-edged sword in their hand; to wreak vengeance on the nations" (Psalms 149:6 ).
And finally; who can forget, "The righteous will be glad when they see the vengeance; they will bathe their feet in the blood of the wicked (58:10).
8. Look at all the religious churches and cathedrals the scientists and malformations along with masons constructed for religions.
9. Religion brought us the Bible, a book to live our lives by.
You can kill a woman if she seizes a man's private parts without his permission: Deuteronomy 25:11-1
Human trafficking condoned: "Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse." (1 Peter 2:18)
Sex slavery condoned: "When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again." Exodus 21: 7-8
Cannibalism: "And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him to day, and we will eat my son to morrow. So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him: and she hath hid her son...." (II Kings 6:28-29)
Looking at a woman with desire is akin to adultery: BUT RAPE IS COOL
"But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." (Matthew 5:28) And when she had presented him the meat, he took hold of her, and said: Come lie with me, my sister. She answered him: Do not so, my brother, do not force me: for no such thing must be done in Israel. Do not thou this folly. [II Kings 13:8-12] But he would not hearken to her prayers, but being stronger overpowered her and lay with her. [II Kings 13:14]
Deuteronomy 22:28-29 “If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found, then the man who lay with her shall give to the father of the young woman fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has violated her. He may not divorce her all his days."
wooohhhh.....*clapping both hands and feet*
"and the crowds gone wild" ....!!!!
looks like someone did his own thorough bullshit reading, and slap their dearest holy shit bible to them.
very well said and detailed cog....you're my hero, can i keep this?heheh...i'll steal this like jesus the thief of the night.
Use it wisely my son. Remember this is the LAW "Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Matthew 5:18
Of course, there are those who believe the bible is completely wrong. Hell waits for them.
I just ran across an interesting concept that actually displays something that religion does deliver positively.
Common standards are practiced within communities. For example, if everyone follows the same rules and laws, then everyone within that community can function with each other in relative harmony.
But another community may practice difference common standards, be it food or dress, or laws and rules. But religion can be a common standard between these two different communities, and that gives each community a way to identify with the other, and can reduce or eliminate conflicts.
Religion in itself is inconsequential, but because it can be a common standard, can be a positive factor in a community.
Religion and its gods have in my opinion promote fear and accrual of power for all those that wield it.
divisive and derogative is all it is. it is vile.
still it is a source of comfort to many good people. somehow in their ignorance they derive good from pathetic Iron Age philosophies. thats all. in fact religion proves without a doubt that we as humans have the ability to discern right from wrong despite religion and not because of it.
Perhaps fear of eternity in the fires of Hell was enough to stop someone from committing a truly heinous act? We haven't got anything like eternal restitution in the secular world.
Oh. Hang on. The only unpardonable sin is to hurt god's feelings by not worshipping it- the original victimless crime.
Nah. Sorry. I got nothing positive religion does that secularism doesn't.