https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/oct/09/aids
I found this story in Christopher Hitchens' book, "God is not Great." At first I couldn't believe it, but it's corroborated in the mainstream media.
Despite the millions of deaths caused by AIDS in Africa, the Catholic church continued to oppose condom use in favor of abstinence. But they didn't just say condom use is immoral. They actually spread lies that condoms have microscopic holes that allow the AIDS virus to pass through. That's mass-murder.
Around the same time, Muslim fatheads in Nigeria put a fatwah on a polio vaccination campaign that came within a hair's breadth of eradicating that awful disease globally and permanently. Thanks to Islam, children in many countries are once again being crippled and killed by an entirely preventable disease.
Catholicism and Islam are sick, immoral death cults that feed on lies, dirt and disease. They have no place in the 21st century. I can't imagine why any decent person would take them seriously.
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I agree 100% fuck the church! It will stop at nothing to spread lies and try to siphon as much money as possible to keep their child rapists happy! Also fuck Islam they have single handily fucked generations of people back to the Stone Age!
Education, education, education!!!! This is the only way we can help the current and future generations not fall for this bullshit
You’ve actually touched on a topic pretty close to my heart. For the questions below, don’t include the other modes of infection of HIV aside from sexual contact.
Can HIV spread from person A to person B if they don’t have sex?
Can HIV spread from person A to person B if the have sex and use a condom?
The answers are No, and Yes. Girls can even get pregnant even when contraception is used.
[edited out]
This is actually one of the things that drives me to try and convince people that condoms are not the answer. And popular media telling us otherwise is just perpetuating lies.
crackpot
Hmmm. You didn't address the issue.
I read the link on the OP, it consistently points out that "proper and consistent use" of condoms can help reduce HIV infections by 90%. I could argue, together with the RCC, that abstinence when done properly and consistently can help reduce HIV infections by 100%. Response?
@Jon the Catholic:
"Can HIV spread from person A to person B if they don’t have sex?"
"Can HIV spread from person A to person B if the have sex and use a condom?"
Silly questions.
Is there anywhere in the world where people don't have sex? (and don't say the Vatican) Are there people anywhere who are going to stop having sex because a fornicating, child-molesting hypocrite in a black dress or red hat tells them to? If people are going to have sex, shouldn't they take minimal precautions to protect themselves from a potentially fatal disease?
In answer to your second question, AIDS can be transmitted in a very low percentage of cases even when condoms are used, due to condom defects or damage. People can still get killed in car crashes despite seatbelts and airbags. So should we get rid of seatbelts, airbags, and condoms and trust to god?
Oh good. at least you agree with me on these questions. So we could agree that between condom use and abstinence, abstinence is actually more effective at preventing infection. Shouldn't we be advocating abstinence or sex only in the confines of marriage rather than condom use? The first one seems to both of us the more permanent solution to end HIV.
@Jon the Catholic: "at least you agree with me on these questions"
I don't agree with you at all. You seem to think that abstinence is a possibility in the real world. In the real world, people living hopeless lives in dire poverty turn to sex as a release. Husbands go out to brothels and return to their wives infected with AIDS. People engage in unprotected sex out of ignorance. An imperfect safeguard is better than no safeguard.
Who in Catholic church has the moral authority to instruct anyone to abstain from sex, either inside or outside of marriage?
Clearly abstinence didn't work for you.
Neither did a condom
You are a Catholic apologist from a Catholic dominated colonial nation. Nothing you have to say about birth control should be taken seriously. To be blunt: I don't believe you.
I don't see why you'd regard my opinion as less valuable but probably it's all for the best. We better not say anything to each other after this.
I know I'm super late on this conversation but I had to add my two cents. I am an atheist first and foremost but I agree with you partly. Yes abstinence should be advocated over other forms of preventative measures. BUT it shouldn't be the only form. Condoms (although not 100% effective) should also be encouraged like a fall back plan.
For cases of pregnancy:
And what would the fall back plan be if condoms break? - abortion
And what would the fall back plan be if abortion fails? killing of infants?
For STDs:
What would be the fall back if the condom fails? - the person refraining from sexual contact? treatment?
I agree that condom may have their purpose. But the most they give is a band-aid solution.
"For cases of pregnancy: And what would the fall back plan be if condoms break? - abortion And what would the fall back plan be if abortion fails? killing of infants?"
Nice non sequitur to imply those who don't share your adherence to catholic dogma believe in infanticide, but it is Christians who celebrate the idea that infanticide is morally good with the story of Abraham being moral when he decided to murder his own infant son because the voices in his head told him to. Then trotting out the sorry excuse that at least their deity stopped him be fore he eviscerated and then immolated his son, whom he had already subdued and tied up then placed on top of a pre-prepared pyre for the purpose. One wonders what the infant Isaac made of all this, but the bible leaves us wondering. The message however couldn't be clear, that we are to do whatever God tells us, regardless how immoral it may appear to us. You'd think the apologists who make the risible claim this story is an indictment AGAINST child sacrifice would have the wit to ask themselves why an omniscient omnipotent deity didn't simply remove one of four commandments demanding how it should be worshipped and replace it with on demanding a moratorium on sacrifices of any kind, and while he was at it another commandment to denounce slavery of any stamp as evil.
Getting back on tack, what you're missing / ignoring here again is that abstinence teaching not only does not work, but has been shown to have disastrous consequences in many states in the US where the religious influence have replaced proper sex education with it. Resulting in far higher unwanted / unplanned teenage pregnancies, and far higher rates of STD's.
"I agree that condom may have their purpose. But the most they give is a band-aid solution."
Well you're contradicting your church and your pope then. The last sentence is nonsense, properly used with proper sex education they would vastly reduce the transfer of STD's including the HIV+ virus and of course unwanted pregnancies, coupled with other forms of contraception and sex education they could be used to help eradicate the disastrous population explosion that threatens an ecological disaster.
"Getting back on tack, what you're missing / ignoring here again is that abstinence teaching not only does not work, but has been shown to have disastrous consequences in many states in the US where the religious influence have replaced proper sex education with it. Resulting in far higher unwanted / unplanned teenage pregnancies, and far higher rates of STD's."
- Is it possible that teaching abstinence is not the flawed teaching? But that sexual promiscuity is the flawed teaching? The idea that people can have sex while mitigating the consequences of sex? Cause you have to agree at the very least, teenage pregnancies and higher rates of STDs are cause by having sex outside the context of marriage.
"Well you're contradicting your church and your pope then."
- How? I said nothing of the moral implications of condoms when I said they MAY have their purpose and that the most it gives is a band-aid solution.
" Is it possible that teaching abstinence is not the flawed teaching? But that sexual promiscuity is the flawed teaching? The idea that people can have sex while mitigating the consequences of sex? Cause you have to agree at the very least, teenage pregnancies and higher rates of STDs are cause by having sex outside the context of marriage."
No, and you have simply ignored what I said. So I'll repeat that abstinence teaching has had disastrous consequences where it has replaced proper sex education in schools across the US. All the research shows that proper sex education, including the use of condoms drastically reduces unwanted pregnancies and STD's when compared directly with abstinence teaching. Just as research shows clearly that abortion rates are far higher in countries where they are criminalised than in countries that offer proper education and family planning on using contraception where women also have the right to choose to terminate a pregnancy if they wish.
----------------------------------------
"Well you're contradicting your church and your pope then."
- How? I said nothing of the moral implications of condoms when I said they MAY have their purpose and that the most it gives is a band-aid solution.
Obviously it's a contradiction as the Pope and the RCC are promoting the asinine and evil claim that using condoms make the spread STD's like the HIV+virus worse.
"The pontiff said condoms were not the answer to the continent's fight against HIV and Aids and could ***make the problem worse.*** The timing of his remarks outraged health agencies trying to halt the spread of HIV and Aids in sub-Saharan Africa, where an estimated 22 million people are infected.***The pontiff, speaking to journalists, said the condition cannot be overcome through the distribution of condoms, which even aggravates the problems".
@Sheldon: Nice non sequitur to imply those who don't share your adherence to catholic dogma believe in infanticide, but it is Christians who celebrate the idea that infanticide is morally good with the story of Abraham being moral when he decided to murder his own infant son because the voices in his head told him to. Let me add to that: ¡OLÉ!
@JOC: Abstinence policy doesn't work. Not even for the Vatican's Cardinals, the ones who preach about remaining abstinent the most, who are head of RCC hierarchy. It only makes their sex conduct much worse:
https://nypost.com/2017/07/05/vatican-cops-bust-drug-fueled-gay-orgy-at-... The link gives a clue...
www.bbc.com/news/uk-21649475 Cardinal O'Brien's sex misconduct.
www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-41507654 Cardinal Pell's, personal aide to Pople, sex misconduct.
Among others.
incorrect
answer is yes & yes via
hiv is spread via shared needles for example
however I am disgusted you attempt to undermine the important message of the massive reduction in risk of infection of hiv & other std using condoms & implication of abstinence being remotely realistic
catholic much?
I had said earlier that I was talking about sexual contact only ti narrow down the context.
So again, can one person pass HIV to someone else if they don’t have sex?
Do you even know the ABCs they teach? A does mean abstinence. B would be Be faithful (having sex only in marriage). C means Contraception. They’re arranged alphabetically and also by effectiveness.
"So again, can one person pass HIV to someone else if they don’t have sex?"
No, in the same way we can avoid wars by killing everyone. This fallacious dichotomy however is beyond absurd. Especially coming from someone who champions catholic dogma which demands we breed out of control with no regard for the consequences, just so long as those doing it adhere to the equally absurd dogma that they can only have children after being married as virgins in a church.
Once again since you keep repeating the lie, abstinence teaching has been demonstrably shown to be less effective that proper sex education and properly used contraception, it's only catholic propaganda that tries to spread the lie that this is not the case.
"So again, can one person pass HIV to someone else if they don’t have sex?"
No, now and since there all the evidence suggest this absurd moral posturing will not slow the spread of STD's like the HIV+ virus, but have disastrous ramifications when accompanied by absurd RCC claims that condoms will make things worse, what's the point of lying to yourselves, and more importantly to countries where the virus is endemic? That's not just immoral it's evil.
Can HIV spread from person A to person B if they don’t have sex?
Can HIV spread from person A to person B if the have sex and use a condom?
The answers are No, and Yes.
-------------------------------------
Could you cite the scientific evidence that shows that HIV+ virus is more likely to be spread through the protective latex of a condom, than through unprotected sex? WHICH IS WHAT THE POPE ACTUALLY CLAIMED!!
Or are you and your masters in the Vatican advocating we hold hands into oblivion by never reproducing again?
-------------------------------------------------------------
"This is actually one of the things that drives me to try and convince people that condoms are not the answer."
This is one of the tings that drives me to point out how immoral and dishonest the RCC and their doctrine of death is, since the question is how best to reduce the rate of HIV+ infection, and condoms are definitely the answer.
"The United States ranks first among developed nations in rates of both teenage pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases."
"Using the most recent national data (2005) from all U.S. states with information on sex education laws or policies, we show that increasing emphasis on abstinence education is positively correlated with teenage pregnancy and birth rates. "
"These data show clearly that abstinence-only education as a state policy is ineffective in preventing teenage pregnancy and may actually be contributing to the high teenage pregnancy rates in the U.S."
"In 2008, the Washington Post reported on a University of Washington study which found that teenagers who received comprehensive sex education were 60% less likely to get pregnant than someone who received abstinence-only education. A 2007 federal report found that abstinence-only programs have had "no impacts on rates of sexual abstinence," reported ThinkProgress."
Sex advice from 70+ year old male virgins who like to dress in frocks but espouse disgusting homophobic bigotry. Irony overload or what...
Abstinence is another asinine and absurd superstition based bronze age flimflam, brought to you by the murderous Vatican, who have for decades protected paedophiles and placed them away from prosecution and enabled the continuing abuse of children in their care. I wouldn't trust them if they said we lived in a geocentric universe....oh wait..
Vile vipers wearing dresses and funny hats. Don't take marriage or sex advice from celibates and child rapists. It's like asking the fry cook at your local burger place for tax advice. He will give you bad advice and still want your social security number!
I remember a while back when a Catholic publication in Spain said the condoms in Africa were useless because Africans are brutes and they would damage the condoms with their brawny hands.
Inevitably, one would suspect overt racism. Ethnic cleansing at work!
Here are some bite sized readings for you guys on this topic. The first one tells the story of Uganda and mentions Thailand and the Philippines. Being Filipino, I can agree to this. Right now, though, the Philippines does have a larger HIV infection rate. The numbers were shockingly low 10 years ago. With the rise of popular media promoting sexual promiscuity, we now have the HIV infection rates we have today.
https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/the-pope-was-right-about-condoms...
This next one is usually forgotten when the topic of HIV/AIDS comes up. People zoom into the RCC's stance on condom use and forget that this institution actually funds a huge chunk of treatment facilities around the world. Yep. Maybe you guys didn't know that but that's true. Ethnic cleansing? Hardly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_HIV/AIDS#Provision_of_...
fantastic you've now said that
im in Makati
kumusta?
remind my why ph is catholic.....ahh yes the brutality of the Spanish & its means to create slaves
the hiv rates are due to the very anti condom fight mentioned & thankfully the president has said fuk you to them & is making not only condoms but support available to all door-2-door
want to tell more lies about ph?
[Removed sensitive information] in 2012, I was shocked that the number of cases had only been less than 5000. For a country of more than 88M, that’s a pretty low number. Remember a time when sex outside of marriage was a taboo topic? Remember when our media was bombarded with western ideas about sex? Yup! Condoms are not the answer. Abstinence is. It’s even the cheaper option.
western like Europe & spain?
irony
your ideas are iron age & you make ph sound inbred, backward & stupid
how many more must suffer before you wake up?
not having sex is not natural
marriage predates al religon
im not catholic & not hiv
you however....
didn't you try praying......
not leaving the house is safer here
stupid as your abstinence idea
not far from malaysaia are we?
lucky the Spanish got here 1st or youd be muslim
all that $$$ the catholic church pay for hospitals etc = $ ???
all that $$$ the catholic church pay to silence abuse victims = $ ???
where did they get it all, who's money is it originally = YOURS
did you look up how many women are in the leadership btw?
did you look up how many verses are anti women?
baaaaaaaa says the sheep
please stop saying youre Filipino its embarrassing
Actually, I'm now doubting if you are a Filipino. It's your language pattern. It's very... un-Filipino. I'm actually from Cebu so I can see the cultural difference if you say you're from Makati. Having lived in Makati for 3 years, there's a huge gap with sexual promiscuity between Cebu and Makati if you look at the same year. While sex was still seen by me and most of my friends (from Cebu) as a sacred act reserved only for married couples, we noticed that our new classmates from Manila, or CDO (oddly, enough) had more liberal views on sex.
We then realized that certain western media arrived in CDO much earlier than it did in Cebu. Coincidence? Probably not.
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