As some may be aware, a Danish man is going to be brought up on blasphemy charges for burning the Qur'an. As shocking as this is it brings to light a few points worthy of discussion.
What does it mean to blaspheme in the first place? Blasphemy is to some extent the transgression of a religious law. The validity of that law rests on the authority of the deity, of whom that religion is centered around. But what if one does not recognize that authority, is the law still valid? What about the varying interpretations between denominations as to what extent that law applies, or is to be enforced, who is going to decide, if members of the same religion cannot even agree, how can it be enforced? Considering the fact that since the very existence of the deity is assumed, then by extension, the authority of that deity is assumed. When the man sought to burn the Qur'an didn't he also assume that he had the authority to engage in such an act? Who can say he was wrong? Doesn't one assumed authority get cancelled out by another assumed authority? If that is the case then the man did nothing wrong in the first place, having by his own action rendered the law against burning the Qur'an, null in void.
Putting those questions aside for now, it is important to note that here in America we have something that I would say is perceived to be an act of blasphemy tantamount to burning the Qur'an, that of burning the American Flag. Interestingly enough, those who are in favor of burning the flag are also against burning the Qur'an. The justification for burning one over the other is that the flag is a symbol of a history of oppression, while the Qur'an is a symbol of faith for a group of people who have suffered under that very flag, and in the name of multiculturalism, that symbol must be respected, and protected.
Yet, the justification for burning the flag is also the same justification for burning the Qur'an. What exactly is that justification? Well the suffering and subjugation of women and homosexuals,slavery, ethnic cleansing and antisemitism. This is what the flag represents and therefore should be burned. But one need not look any farther than the Qur'an itself to find the warrant for the suffering and subjugation of women and homosexuals,slavery, ethnic cleansing and antisemitism.
So burn the flag if you will, but keep your lighter at the ready, because if one claims to stand upon the moral high ground, then bring the flame of judgement to the pages of the Qur'an as well. For that is a source of hatred and oppression far older than the flag itself.
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In Denmark of all places! I am ashamed for them.
Blasphemy: The act or offense of speaking sacrilegiously about God or sacred things; profane talk.
People who embrace the word with a desire to enact upon it reside outside secular law, as well as those they portend to spiritually uphold. A truly confused people. I agree, Denmark is embarrassing itself. What's next, literal enactment of Leviticus 20?
I may have a somewhat different perspective than others do on this issue.
I start with the asking the question of "why" it is illegal to burn the Qur'an or a nation state flag, if applicable, in the first place? Typically, the immediate off-the-cuff response is that a law (either religious or nation state) makes it so.
That leads to questioning the reason for the law. Who or what is the law intended to protect?
I submit that such laws are legislated to protect the "authority" of the institution behind the law. Those who are subjected to the law(s) must be ruled by and dominated over by the ruling authority in order to maintain their power. The elites within that ruling authority cannot -- and will not -- allow their authority and power to be challenged.
Isn't DISSENT the most common reason for burning the Qur'an (or Bible) or a nation state flag? Isn't dissent challenging authority?
It is my belief that NO person has the right to rule over or dominate another person.
Those who are being ruled or dominated over are not equals in the relationship. In reality, they are slaves -- either by volunteering their submission or by the coercion, intimidation or violent force of the person or group with the authority and power.
If people can't burn books or flags they might as well go all in and start a revolution since the penalties are comparable. The Christians were some of the earliest recorded book burners (Acts 19:17-20). It's based on the First Commandment in Exodus 34:11-16 which tells the Israelites to destroy other people's religious artifacts.
In Revelation chapter 16 everyone is blaspheming God because of his cruelty.
So it seems that the guy is simply doing what everyone has already done or will do.
That just isn't accurate; for example: I'm OK with either.
It is accurate, you are just an exception. In a country of three hundred million, there are bound to be a few. I am against burning the Qur'an and the flag. But people are free burn either as far as I am concerned.
So you and I (and it seems others in the thread) are exceptions and that doesn't make you at least a little skeptic about the statement's accuracy?
No, because there is always an exception. Now I would like to ask you, and this is not meant to be snarky or combative I genuinely want to know, do you feel that you are nitpicking just a little, or was that honestly confusing? Because to me there really is no point you are making other than I should have accounted for every single reason possible why someone would burn the flag. Should I have posted a video of someone specifically burning the flag for the reason I listed?
Well I can't back it up with anything, but if I was to guess, I'd guess the majority of people who don't oppose flag burning, don't oppose the burning of the Quran.
So what I meant was, is the issue that I made a definitive statement about the justification offered for burning the flag vs burning the Qur'an and not a statement qualifying for my specific example?
I don't understand your question, I'm sorry. I'll just say:
I object to your suggestion that people who support the right to burn the flag (A), don't support the right to burn the Quran(B). Not only are there exceptions, it would be my guess that the majority of members of set A, are not members of set B.
on a side note I also object to your statement: the justification for burning the flag is also the same justification for burning the Qur'an.
Well I've burned a lot of things which I didn't like, including a "small" Koran, it just didn't seem right sitting on my room.
Non-members of a religion aren't bound by its rules, laws or clergy's dictats. It follows that only members of the religion can blaspheme. To non-members, spoken blasphemy is satire and peaceful acts or protest are freedom of expression.
The burning of the US flag or Koran or Bible is speech. Unwelcome speech. Oppositional speech. As such, the aggrieved hearers of the speech are inclined to attempt to shut the offending speaker up. In this way the burning of the US flag and Koran are similar. With a book ostensibly from god, the stakes are a lot higher than any flag burning, even 'ol glory itself. There isn't a large contingent of Americans who believe the souls of their children might be doomed if a US flag is burned, but people convinced in the inerrancy of the Koran very well might. The US flag burning is generally viewed as disloyalty, the Koran burning is pretty much always viewed as heresy. It is still speech, regardless whether book or flag, and I support lighting them all up if that helps someone make their point. The right of a speaker to speak takes priority over aggrieved listeners' bruised feelings. I insert this to say that the flag burning has little in common with a Koran burning outside of them both being forms of speech.
Regarding the blasphemy question, if I burn a Koran it is definitely blasphemy. I probably blaspheme the god Poseidon by never asking his permission to cross an ocean. We are blaspheming all the time according to the various world religions. The thing I'm stunned at is the Danes bothering to worry about blasphemy at all. Humanity would be greatly aided by people demanding that offenses against the gods be responded to only by the gods themselves. Leave it to Jehovah and Thor and Allah to sort things out with the blasphemer. I think blasphemy should be treated as a basic human right that is recognized by the ICC and the UN and Amnesty Int'l. The realization that every religious adherent is blaspheming against the other gods should be enough to stop this multi-millennium problem. I think highly of Denmark and am dissappointed by this news.
I said Netherlands but should have said Denmark. Sorry for the error.
I said Netherlands but should have said Denmark. Sorry for the error.
Such laws are typically pushed by politicians who are being bribed by the "offended" religion as a way to introduce their religious laws upon the greater society. It's also why they recruit certain celebrities who are down on their luck to become converts. They bribe them.
Humans will continually compete relative to the morality trending at the time. Holier, more righteous; altruism dangles its banner wherever people nail it up as a contrivance of their psyches and, most laughably, do so as oppositional factions. Stupid cannot be any better exemplified than that. In the minds of theists this has decimated whole generations of families and completely killed off as many. Always entertaining.
Denmark, Poland, Ireland, Italy and Greece all have anti-blasphemy laws! Yikes. They are joined by the most backward and benighted nations on the planet. I expect this type of cruelty and ridiculousness from the Islamic states, but I expect a lot better from the more educated regions.
Oh, and Russia and India are on the list. Given Russia's 20th century history and India's population and religious mix, I can't help but be puzzled.