Good afternoon, AR. This is my first post on the board, though certainly not my first post as it relates to theological, societal, and political debate. I reply often on the Facebook links sent out by the Republic, and I'd like to think have held my own in debates about the nature of the universe and metaphysics.
On that note, I want to discuss and debate something that rides the rim of religion so closely I wonder if perhaps it hasn't fallen into the abyss. As Abrahamic religion begins its slow decline into societal obselesence, 'New Age' ideas have begun to spring up unbidden (and often unwanted) from the dregs of people's need for structure to their mythology. Spirit stones, chakra lines, ufology, and a host of other unjustified beliefs about the world began to grow up like parasites picking at a wound that just started to heal.
While we can all agree that our 'Sacred Leylines' have about as much to do with anything in reality as the 'Divine Plan', I want to talk about one aspect that has me scratching my head. In a book I would otherwise recommend, 'The End of Faith' ends on a bizarre note where the author claims that 'spiritual experiences' can be had in the real world via (explicitly) meditation and (tacitly implied) psychedelic drug use. I can't abide by the latter, but the former has me intrigued.
Most meditative practices I've seen come from Eastern religions such as Buddhism and involve strong introspection and occasional feats of endurance such as fasting or performing physical acts that require a high degree of patience and strength. It's known by observation and experimentation that physical activity and exercise has positive effects on the brain and body, both long and short-term, so it's not entirely out of the realm of possibility that an enhanced state of mind beyond even these boundaries of sensation are doable.
My question to everyone is where the line must be drawn as it relates to these practices. Excluding the obvious x-factors like politicizing meditation, forced obeyance of mantras, etc., where else must we as rational people say that this is bunk?
Or, perhaps on the more stringent end, is the whole lot of it a fabrication? A biomechanical form of pareidolia? Are 'Spritual Experiences' real or only real to those who claim them?
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Hi tzeentch. Welcome to the forums.
"My question to everyone is where the line must be drawn as it relates to these practices. Excluding the obvious x-factors like politicizing meditation, forced obeyance of mantras, etc., where else must we as rational people say that this is bunk?"
There is no "we". Not all atheists are rational. (Poke around in these forums long enough and that will become obvious ;) ). There are no united opinions among those identifying as atheist. No one here can draw any lines for anyone other than themselves.
And just to throw in a tad more contrariness, ;) I don't know that new age stuff is on the rise. Would like access to any studies on that if you have them. I suspect it's actually, on the whole and across the centuries, on the decline.
Permit the pronouns, I didn't mean to infer that 'We Are Legion'. I wasn't trying to say that New Age spiritualism was or wasn't on the decline, what I meant to ask is what we felt about it conceptually.
I'd say this topic is more based on opinion rather than facts, because this may bother or not bother certain people more than others. I am undecided as to how I feel about this, ass of right now.
"Are 'Spritual Experiences' real or only real to those who claim them?"
I kind of discussed something similar with a therapist when I was in outpatient. Although the subject was different, the answer applies to this. Basically, the answer was along the lines of "There is only one right answer to this, and it's a matter of who's right". Based on my little experience with supernatural, and researching, and reasoning etc. etc., I would most certainly say there is a pretty small chance there are. BUTTTTT then again, what do I know. Cheers matey :D
CyberLN - "I suspect it's actually, on the whole and across the centuries, on the decline. "
I'd guess as organized religion shrinks, this non-sense will grow; but I can't back that up with anything.
Neither can I back up what I said above with anything substantive. However, I think we just hear about it more frequently now days due to advanced communications mechanisms. Movies and TV may be responsible for the notion these things are growing. At least fewer of us sacrifice virgins to get rain lately.
Well, from what I understand, neopaganism has been on the rise for the last two decades. As to whether that is due to conversion, or people being increasingly comfortable identifying themselves, I'm not sure anyone can be certain of that.
To tack on to the question about whether or not New Age spiritualism is on the rise (a question I punted earlier, to my regret) I would say that definitive proof lies in 'recent' movements like Heaven's Gate, Aum Shinrikyo, Feng Shui, and Scientology. These don't directly follow Abrahamic theology, if at all, and either already 'peaked', or is still running strong.