An anecdotal example of evidence that a person's consciousness leaves and returns to their body during an NDE comes from the research of Dr. Melvin Morse. Olga Gearhardt was a 63 year old woman who underwent a heart transplant because of a severe virus that attacked her heart tissue. Her entire family awaited at the hospital during the surgery, except for her son-in-law, who stayed home. The transplant was a success, but at exactly 2:15 am, her new heart stopped beating. It took the frantic transplant team three more hours to revive her. Her family was only told in the morning that her operation was a success, without other details. When they called her son-in-law with the good news, he had his own news to tell. He had already learned about the successful surgery. At exactly 2:15 am, while he was sleeping, he awoke to see his Olga, his mother-in-law, at the foot of his bed. She told him not to worry, that she was going to be alright. She asked him to tell her daughter (his wife). He wrote down the message, and the time of day and then fell asleep. Later on at the hospital, Olga regained consciousness. Her first words were "did you get the message?" She was able to confirm that she left her body during her near-death experience and was able to travel to her son-in-law to communicate to him the message. This anecdotal evidence demonstrates that the near-death experience is a return to consciousness at the point of death, when the brain is dying. Dr. Melvin Morse thoroughly researched Olga's testimony and every detail had objective verification including the scribbled note by the son-in-law.
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One word: anecdote.
@CyberLN
I am sorry but what does "anrecdote" mean in simple terms? English is not my first language
Well, anecdotal evindence is not evidence. I can say that I saw a fairy in my garden. That is an anecdote. It proves exactly zero.
@CyberLN
I beg to respectively differ. That is not the definition of anecdote in this context. Saying something is anecdotal evidence does not doubt the truth of the story but doubts the assertion that the event is sufficient evidence for the claim being advanced.
"Frank is a nice person because I saw him help a stranger." Can be anecdotal evidence because it does not look at all of Frank's behavior only this one case. He may normally be a bad person just this incident was an exception.
As I understand it, it refers specifically to personal accounts:
"adjective: anecdotal
(of an account) not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research.
"while there was much anecdotal evidence there was little hard fact"
synonyms: informal, unreliable, based on hearsay; unscientific
"the evidence is merely anecdotal""
(Google)
Another important aspect is the level of required evidence:
- If someone claims that they saw my neighbor sneakingly taking a smoke, even though he claims he has quit smoking, anecdotal evidence might be enough. At least from a reliable source.
- If someone claims that they saw my neighbor heal a dead cat with bluish magic emanating from his hands while chanting in some unknown language, anecdotal evidence, even from a credible source, just wouldn't be enough.
@The Pragmatic
I stand corrected. Thank you.
Anecdotal is information is information that in and of itself does not establish a greater fact. I avoided looking in the dictionary so, that is my raw definition xD! Three cats being hit by cars on a rainy day might be anecdotal information since three cats may have been hit by cars on a sunny day. From the first anecdotal fact, we can't conclude that rain is to blame for cat-tastrophies! (Do you mean you "respectfully" beg to differ?)
@pork222: The problem is that @CyberLN is a very good person. Let me explain it so you understand, what you tell is a fucking lie....
http://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/debate-room/atheists-can-you-think...
google it
@CyberLN; Not even that, it's just a lie. There're some temporary ratios to revive a person in cardiac arrest, these ratios are given based on several factors, one of them is that beyond a given time the brain damage that could have a person undergoing resuscitation would be of such caliber that It would not be human to overcome them. With this I'm not saying that there's no heartless doctor who could do it, but what I can affirm is that Olga Gearhardt today would be a lettuce
And there's absolutely nothing more to say about it, because it isn't debatable, it's just a lie.
This story is hearsay. It is pragmatic to just say this story is bullshit and ask the storyteller to provide evidence rather than ask us to debunk it.
A little background on Dr. Melvin Morse. Convincing other people that near death experiences were real was so important to him; that he was found guilty of trying to drown a 11 year old girl to cause a near death experience (among other horrific acts). Now consider what you told us:
How objective do you this this man was in his investigations, given what we know about him? Do you think it is possible he might have let his very strong feelings on this subject interfere with his "work"? You know the same way it twisted his parental instincts into trying to kill a kid?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ hence, anecdotal, subjective.
Some info on Dr. Melvin:
Dr. Melvin L. Morse was convicted for "waterboarding" his eleven-year-old step-daughter and got three years in prison. He was also accused by Delaware State Police of force-feeding the eleven-year-old girl until she threw up, among other child abuse. Melvin Morse also faced charges that he had threatened the life of an elderly neighbor.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melvin_L._Morse
His actions seem even more bizarre when you think about the fact that his first book "Closer to the Light" was about "near-death experiences of children".
"Delaware state officials yesterday suspended the license of an internationally-known pediatrician accused of "waterboarding" his 11-year-old daughter. (He has been on Oprah, Larry King, etc)
Melvin Morse, 58, poses a "clear and immediate danger to the public health," declared a filing published on the website of the Board of Medical Licensure and Discipline."
http://www.webcitation.org/query?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.philly.com%2Fphill...
Now that is a debunk!
You have this ass backward. The person making the assertion has the burden of proof. Please prove your assertion that NDEs are real. Ready? Go
Nice story dude! Maybe it's true, maybe it isn't. No meat on the bone. We have stories of Jesus, bigfoot, 9/11 conspiracies, aliens, ghosts. Some even believe the Cubs finally won a world series.
@pork222: But think by yourself. What do you think can happen to a person who is in respiratory cardiopulmonary arrest for three hours? How do you think a brain can end up undergoing a person's resuscitation for three hours? Did you know that a person who has cardiopulmonary resuscitation for more than 20 minutes has a 40% of suffering irreversible brain damage? Aren't you curious enough to be critical about what you read? That text you copied and pasted there embarrassed you as a credulous person and I'm ashamed to have read a stupidity of this size and you can believe it. Please!!!
pork222
All you have for evidence is a story from one person who claims to have been woken up by the lady's spirit. The bad doctor was not present at the time.
The definition of anecdotal aside, since it's an easy Google...
"He wrote down the message, and the time of day and then fell asleep." This is hardly a response that someone would have to seeing an "Astral Projection" talking at the foot of their bed. It is also a very commonly told story. If I was not new to this group, this would not have solicited a response from me. ;D
Wow, this is the best people can come up with on proof of god/afterlife? And some believe this crap enough to try and challenge fact based atheist?
/facepalm
Not that I expected any real argument, if they had a real argument for god etc we would of heard about it by now.
My heart stopped beating last night for three hours and no one knew about it. I visited heaven, hell and harlem while I was dead and spoke to Elvis and Eddie Munster. Do you believe me? If not, why not?
Like all NDE's this is just a testimony. Testimony = Anecdote = No type of evidence in any way, shape, or form.
"Dr. Melvin Morse thoroughly researched Olga's testimony and every detail had objective verification including the scribbled note by the son-in-law."
Any details other than saying that he did the research? Has he observed anything else like this before or after the event? has his work been under any peer review? because if not, it's just another anecdote.
pork222
I wish you would stop doing this.
1) I would check the source for reliability and accuracy.
2) I would do some research about what really happened.
Did everything happen EXACTLY how it is described?
Is this a made up story after the fact?
3) I would check the motivations of the story teller.
Are they really who they say they are?
Are they looking for an NDE, or are they just randomly experiencing one?
This story is bullshit in the first place. It can't be proven or disproven. That should have been your first clue.
When will you stop finding these stupid unproven stories on the net and start thinking logically?
All,
Please check the date of the OP.
I try to check, resurrected/zombified post happens a lot it seems, I think sometimes the forum software gets confused on the year or the month and puts a thread up as new reply even when its a year+ old.
I have not managed a forum in a while, but past experience showed me that it is a good idea to cull/or transfer old threads to a graveyard forum, and also to limit replies to a single thread to 100 or so. (Auto locks the thread after 100 replies and encourages people to create a new thread.)