If any of you have ever scrolled through some images of atheist quotes or followed atheist programs/accounts on Twitter like I have, you'll see a lot about morality, and how the Bible and Koran are full of immorality by today's standards. What I hope to find out is if those standards are exclusively secular. Is atheism inherently or fundamentally good, or did it just kind of happen to be that way? As an atheist, I don't ascribe any of my morality to any books or holy texts, but where did it come from? I certainly didn't just become moral one day. Or did I? What I want to know is by what process did morality, objective morality especially, come about? If anyone would like to make a claim as to where morality comes from and how it got to be so contradictory to popular holy texts, please respond with your ideas. All thoughts are important. However, you are warned: any unsubstantiated or illogical claims will be ridiculed like they deserve to be, no matter who posted them. Ration is one of the few tools we have as atheists, so use it. That goes for you, too, theists.
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My morality comes from treating people how I want to be treated. If that makes it good morals, more the better.
Atheism is neither inherently good or bad. Atheism is not a world view. Atheism a position on one proposal, which relates to whether we atheists believe that gods exist.
Very well put, thank you. I realize that the two ideas were not cohesive, hence the asking on grounds of a coincidence.
Jared .....
MCD is right....
Good and Bad are relative terms...... and are also subjective ....
That is .... they can be changed/adapted by circumstances .....
I agree with MCD. atheism only relates to the lack of belief in any god. Besides that however, there is nothing that prevents an atheist from being the most moral person or the least moral person in the world.
If you put morality in perspective from a naturalistic point of view, species show different levels of morality throughout the animal kingdom. Our closest cousins, the great apes, show the ability to live in societies with rules, and are capable of helping each other when in danger. Sometimes they perform amoral actions like brutally killing their offspring for disobeying a certain rule, or because the leader ape feels threatened because the offspring might take his place in the future. It is important therefore to note that these primates do not possess the same cognitive capability as us, and if they did, they would eventually outgrow of such behaviors. Nothing is there to prevent such species from evolving a better ability to recognize pain in others, and advancing their societies to become more moral.
According to what I have read so far and the videos I have watched, what makes more sense to me is that morality is subjective. However, because we are all beings from the same species, our morality is very similar. We have continuously look for better ways of treating people fair and equally based on logic and reason. As a result, we have advance our thinking (some of us) as time has passed to understand that it is not good to own another person as a slave, or to mentally hurt other people. We learn more as time passes.
Now, I understand that morality being subjective can lead one to think that anyone can do whatever they want, as what could be wrong for me could be totally fine for the person next to me. However reason and logic tell me that if I want to live in a prosperous livable society, we need to respect others by not hurting them in anyway. For instance, living in a society where everybody lies and takes advantage of each other, is not the type of society that progresses. It is for that reason that we strive to get along with others, while those who do bad things get punished in one way or another through laws created by reasonable individuals.
Altruism is seen throughout the animal kingdom, and we share the same common ancestors. Therefore it is reasonable to think that we evolved morality, and due to being part of the same species, we have very similar morality.
Precisely because many religions from our days were created by ancient societies, much of the views given by these religions are outdated. They do not fit our lives anymore because we have learned better since that time.
Ultimately I think that a society that wishes to progress has to be open to respectful dialogue for more advancements to be accomplished.
Yes, I generally accept the evolutionary theory of morality, but I think I should rephrase the question a bit. What I meant to ask is why it seems that more atheists are moral/ethical in society compared to other people of faith. Statistically speaking, atheists and agnostics commit the fewest crimes, are accused of the least amounts of hate speech and discrimination, and are just generally good, it would appear. What I wonder is if there is some element or trait of the average atheist mindset that favors morality, or is this just a happy coincidence? I am a firm supporter of mathematics, so I know about random chance and probability, and it seems unlikely that atheists can be good this much of the time without there being something in their nature that is inherently or learnedly good. What do you think?
It is important to notice that atheist who hold unreasonable beliefs do exist. If you take your time to look for them, you would find atheists who believe in karma, spirits or other unsubstantiated claims.
Now, I really have not done much reading on atheist crime statistics. It is true that nordic nations, which are highly atheistic, do have a better quality of life, less crime, less hate etc. This trend seems to be related to the education level in a society. The more educated people are, the less likely they are to be racists for example. There is a positive correlation between all of these aspects in comparison to education level. Education level seems to also correlated with lack of belief in god, or at the very least, in secular individuals who still hold a belief in a god, and understand that they cannot impose their views on others. I would also add, that as atheists, depending on where you live, we are more pressured to show that we can be good people without religion. Many people judge us as immoral simply for not having a belief in a god. Other people might simply do it because it's within them to do good deeds, and actually get a kick out of it.
I personally would like to observe how a fully atheistic world would be in comparison to our world. Maybe it would be a lot better, or maybe it would be the same. Certainly problems due to religion would not be present, but what if other types of problems arise? Since we don't live in a majority atheistic world, is hard to say how it would look like.
I want to clarify again. I have not read too much on the matter. My opinion would be that less crime, less racism, less poverty, more stable societies, and a higher amount of atheists are all a byproduct of higher education. Therefore atheism does not necessarily lead to these values, but higher education does.
I will definitely read more on the topic, and I encourage you to do the same.