I was discussing with my Islamic studies professor about some arguments that "atheists" use that refute the concept of God (yes, I am a closeted atheist). He referred to the teleological argument; where everything is grand and perfect to the microscopic level, hence it must be created. I referred to him the basic refutation: "If such a grand universe is created, then such a grand thing that created the universe must be created", the atheists would say, I said. He "tried" to refute this argument by saying: "If the creator is created, then he's not the creator." I'm not an expert in philosophy but this seems to be related to logic and I ended the discussion from there. If someone can please elaborate on his refutation, and explain to me a refutation for his refutation. Thank you.