@shiningone

I asked you very simply when do you think when someone is a person and you stated when the mother knows about it, I stated that was a weird opinion and said why it was weird.

Now you are complaining I took your statement to literally? Do you want to change the moment it is a human life now to a different point? I am just trying to pin down at what point do you think a fertilized egg is a full human being that supersedes a woman's right to her own body,

Instead you attack my break down of your argument, why is that? I do not get offended when you state what your opinion is, I only just point out the flaws in it, which I did.

Yes many laws started off as opinions, usually not as nearly controversial opinions, but then they were accepted and adjusted based on real world evidence instead of opinion. Real markers that can be well explained. Stealing is wrong, then in court they can prove the theft took place.

However the argument of when a blastocysts rights exceeds the woman's rights is not a hard line, that can be well evidenced it is an opinion. One thing that is real? A woman losing the right to her own body as a potential for human life grows within her this becomes fact if laws are made that bar them from abortion.

Plus this only the rights of mother vs rights of potential human life argument. There are many other major major issues with forcing the opinion of human life onto mothers that has already been discussed in this thread, not least of which, the laws really only affect the poor, the rich can get as many as abortions they want when ever they want with little inconvenience to them,

Where many poor woman in this country right now are forced to have a child they do not want and cannot afford. An inequality issue that further birth control in this country only greatly exacerbates. Freedom of speech protects the rights of people with their opinions to harass women in the planned parenthood parking lots on quite possibly the worse day of a woman's life is already a lot of leeway given to these people. When people then force their unevidenced opinion via law on a vulnerable poor female population that quickly becomes abominable.

It's clear you don't understand what ad hominem means, as those were all direct comments on what you had posted. So it's you who is being dishonest. The implication in your "question" about rape was clear, and beneath contempt, so spare me your protestations.

"The comment I made that you referred to as a mantra was,"

You're trying to tell me what comment I had in mind? Do take a moment, and see if you can see how absurdly silly that is.

"You ALSO did NOT say "getting pregnant was not always a choice." You said, " how dumb does someone have to be to not realise that it's often not a woman's choice to get pregnant."

Of course I said it, and someone would have to be pretty dumb not to grasp that it is true. Sex is a choice, getting pregnant is not always a choice, it;s not hard to grasp, and thus your rant that "woman who get pregnant have made their choice" is absurdly disingenuous.

" I had already discounted rape as a separate issue."

I don't care, it's not a separate issue, and several people have pointed out why it is salient. You don't get to tell others what they can include in a debate.

"Excluding that, a woman has two choices, have sex or not have sex. There is NO OTHER WAY of getting pregnant naturally Sheldon."

I'm not sure I can dumb this down any more, sex is a choice, but getting pregnant is not necessarily a choice. Just as crossing the road is a choice, but being hit by a speeding driver is not the result one is looking for. So your relentless mantra about "a woman having made her choice" is asinine, as firstly two people made the choice to have sex, so the man is as culpable for any unwanted pregnancy as the woman, and second a woman may choose to have sex, but does not necessarily choose to get pregnant, hence the term "unwanted pregnancy". Again your relentless repetition of this "mantra" in that post sounds slightly sinister to me, like you were enjoying repeating a chauvinistic, or even a misogynistic claim.

"You are a dishonest person Sheldon. A complete waste of time."

You seem to have a habit of sulking and throwing tantrums when people dare to hold views contrary to your own, are you sure a debate forum is where you want to spend your time? I'm happy for others to decide if my posts are generally dishonest, your opinion in the short time you have been posting here has not garnered much traction on anything, and with good reason.

Why not try tackling the issues people raise instead of constantly sulking, and playing the man not the ball? You keep getting pissy then cry that people are insulting you, it's too funny.

Abortion is a complex moral issue, and you have offered no insight into this moral dichotomy, you just want to deliver your intransigent opinions without anyone offering any thoughts contrary to them, as per usual to be honest, and that doesn't work for me sorry, but by all means feel free to never respond to any of my posts again if it bothers you this much that I have my own opinions and they may not agree with yours.

I am not in favour of abortion, indeed would prefer there were no abortions, but would never take away a woman's right to determine what happens with her own body, and especially not to protect religious sensibilities, or the fragile egos of chauvinists and misogynists who can't bear the thought of any woman having the right to control her own body and reproductive cycle.