I personally can likely calculate the answer to this question solely from counting the absurd assertions from theists on this board alone...but, has this been tackled already?
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Are theists less intelligent than atheists?
No. Just less educated in a formal secular university.
rmfr
Probably not less intelligent, such a subjective word "intelligence."
I think it could be said that theist in general are more prone to suggestion of wild unsubstantiated ideas. Their "reality" filters broken by intense indoctrination of the local popular religion from their parents, family, friends, and anyone else they are likely to meet.
I have little doubt that if I was born to highly religious parents in rural bible belt south, I would not have made it to the atheist viewpoint very easily, if I did not get a 2ndary education in engineering and gained critical thinking skills, I could of easily be as religiously devout as the everyone else I was surrounded with day in and day out from a young age.
I would almost say many atheist were simply born lucky enough to not be fully indoctrinated from a young age by religion from all possible peers.
My hats off to the people here that were clever enough and open minded enough to be born with the odds stacked against them and still were able to see past the cloak of delusion religion does to keep their con perpetuated generation to generation.
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LogicFTW: "My hats off to the people here that were clever enough and open minded enough to be born with the odds stacked against them and still were able to see past the cloak of delusion religion does to keep their con perpetuated generation to generation."
Your whole post deserves 1K Agrees. I can only give one. But I love the part cited above. I am so damn glad my brain and mind just could not compute the Bible and Christianity. And even later, my brain and mind could not compute any religion. Yet I was born and raised in perhaps the worst Baptist Bible Belt state. A state that actually had laws making it legal for "disruptive students" to be disciplined with physical abuse, not to mention the mental rape, emotional molestation, and psychological terrorism Christianity still employs to this day.
Don't get me started...
rmfr
Odd this subject came up today.....
I'm currently reading "The Darkening Age" by Catherine Nixey ..... (its a breakdown of how the early chritian church basically trashed and destroyed the learning and accrued knowledge of the previous milenium ) .
I've just got to chapter 3 which adresses this very subject ..... it mentions a philosopher called Celsus who famously wrote against the fledgling christian faith. (Unfortunately his works have all been destroyed ..... by the christian churches as it happens .... but I'll let that slide.)
What we do have ,however , is a later work by a christian appologist Origen of Alexandria who reproduces large parts of Celsus' writings ( suposedly in order to defeat his attacks on christianity).
Anyway , I digress..... here are some selected quotes from Celsus... concerning the "recruitment" practices and targets of the early church...
"only foolish and low individuals, and persons devoid of perception, and slaves, and women, and children, of whom the teachers of the divine word wish to make converts.".
" Let no one come to us who has been instructed, or who is wise or prudent (for such qualifications are deemed evil by us); but if there be any ignorant, or unintelligent, or uninstructed, or foolish persons, let them come with confidence. By which words, acknowledging that such individuals are worthy of their God, they manifestly show that they desire and are able to gain over only the silly, and the mean, and the stupid, with women and children."...
"For why is it an evil to have been educated, and to have studied the best opinions, and to have both the reality and appearance of wisdom?
" in private houses workers in wool and leather, and fullers, and persons of the most uninstructed and rustic character, not venturing to utter a word in the presence of their elders and wiser masters; but when they get hold of the children privately, and certain women as ignorant as themselves, they pour forth wonderful statements, to the effect that they ought not to give heed to their father and to their teachers, but should obey them; that the former are foolish and stupid, and neither know nor can perform anything that is really good, .."
So basicaly the charge that christians are somewhat short on brain power is indeed an old one ... dating back to 177 AD.
see link:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/celsus2.html
No. Religion's a matter of emotion, not intellect. Believers are so emotionally invested in their religions, that they use their intellects to create convoluted pseudo-logical arguments to justify them.
Exactly right.
Theists are not stupid. They are just comforted in one way or another with irrational stories that atheists do not accept.
This sums it up. The drive for religion is strong, I'm sure you'd find plenty of Nobel prize winners who are at least somewhat religious.
The concept (not the details) is too universal to just chalk up to ignorance. I have argued that the drive that causes religion is a by product of evolution, part of our complex social instincts. The god bits are nonsense, as are the details, but the function of harmonizing behaviors and ideas across a culture imparts (or did) a substantial survival advantage over cultures that did not have that unity.
Religions have some toxic beliefs (some much worse than others) but embedded in those rule sets are many centuries of human experience. Rule sets that enabled societies to cooperate ... concepts of morality that actually improved the overall culture.
It is sad that so many theist suspend logic and reason when it comes to religion, but apply them to the rest of their life.
Just because one is a theist doesn't mean they are dumber than an Atheist, or vice versa.
Whoops, found this on a google search.
https://www.livescience.com/59361-why-are-atheists-generally-more-intell...
There is a large body of research in multiple countries spanning decades of research that demonstrates theism and religiosity decrease in any demographic in direct proportion as education increases. Some studies have shown negative correlation between religiosity and IQ, though of course this represents general trends and does not necessarily speak about all individuals.
I think often it is bias and ignorance rather than a limited intellect that causes theists to make woeful arguments. Though of course we have all no doubt encountered very intelligent and well educated theists in their own field of study who make the most asinine claims and arguments about their religious beliefs.
One need go no further than Francis Collins, head of the human genome project, he is a widely respected scientists at the very top of his field of study in genetics, yet claims to have seen a waterfall frozen into three parts when out walking alone, and fell to his knees as this was a "sign" of the trinity.
The mind boggles at anything so absurd, yet both his intelligence and education levels are probably well into the 90th percentile.
Well trends of overall lack in IQ of theists in comparison to atheists, is good enough for me. Thanks Seldon, that makes me wonder now if religiosity is a genetic disorder...that would be a good question for Francis no?
Another reason why most "religious" people APPEAR to be less educated is due to the fact that the pompous leaders like Billy Graham, Pat Robertson, William Lane Craig, etc., etc., etc. is because they are educated enough in the Bible to know those who are educated in secular universities, and more specifically in the physical sciences, will not fall for their bullshit.
Thus, religions, in order to stay alive, MUST go after those who are less educated. They also focus into brainwashing people in the ages of 4 to 14 when as a child, they are more susceptible to such brainwashing tactics employed by religions.
rmfr
I think a nuance here is that the brainwashing begin at birth, but children will have enough intellect, ironically at 4, to fall to the religious bullshit.
@ Talyyn
I am just glad that even at that age range, my brain and mind still could not compute the bullshit. As my dad said, like a computer, if it weren't logical or rational, it would not compute. Hell, although largely fictional, I found Star Trek: The Original Series to be infinitely more believable than that religious bullshit. I even asked the question of about aliens on other planets and "god" forcing the same Bible onto them. All that got me was an ass-whooping from the Pastor.
rmfr
Religion claims to have all the answers, which discourages believers from thinking for themselves.
If you don't think, you can't be intelligent.
I know some theists who are a heck of a lot smarter than myself. Being a theist does not make you dumb. But IMO religion does attract the stupid and ignorant.
No, just more delusional.
In general, in terms of IQ, they are less intelligent, but it would be foolish to infer anything about the validity of a belief based purely on the intelligence of the people who hold it.
The problem is that religion is designed to trap the gullible, stupid, and ignorant. That skews the overall perception of theists.
What is just as interesting is that some studies have linked church attendance with negative economic growth. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics_of_religion
@David Killens
On a simple economic level it makes sense. On a purely economic level, what gets done economically when 100's or 1000's of people all sit in a building for a few hours and talk about the supernatural -aka not of this universe-?
Sure churches do a lot of charity work, helping people etc, but it is not nearly as efficent as say a non profit dedicated to charity work. Those charities do not have to waste hours talking about the supernatural first and are likely to be more efficent with the dollars and labor done.
And providing goods and services for free is the opposite of economic expansion. (Not saying free stuff is wrong, just that free stuff does not add much to economic growth.)
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▮I am an atheist that always likes a good debate
▮Please include @LogicFTW for responses to me
▮Tips on forum use. ▮ A.R. Member since 2016.
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Would I believe a theist is intelligent?
Sure, I'd buy it.
Would I trust their judgement?
Not a friggin' chance...