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Personally and for many who believe in the The Constitution and the Bill of Rights as extremely well written government documents.
The reason for the Second Amendment or the right of civilians to own 'arms' guns, rifles or similar weapons to protect themselves from the Government if it ever turns into a tyrannical, communist or dictatorial form of government.
Like the Germany, Russia or China have been or many others currently are.
The right to bear arms is so that we the people may protect ourselves from any government especially our own trying to take all of our rights away not just the second amendment.
What I just realized though is that our government has obviously become way too corrupt and powerful and has been brainwashing us for a very long time (going around the second amendment)to make us think we are free because we get to choose between 2 or 3 people for every gov't position to vote for every election that were free.
We are free because we can do, say or believe virtually anything that we want as long as we aren't harming or disturbing others without fear of being arrested. Even though many people often black people are arrested for doing nothing but being black!
Also we the people means we are the government in other words we have a duty to defend the rights given too us by the constitution and the Bill of Rights!
I believe the Federal government is constantly trying to take those rights away,
or make us forget that we still have those rights!
Neal the real deal,
Compared to other writers of the right to bear arms articles in the State Constitutions that list that right, the guy who wrote the Second Amendment for the Federal Constitution was an idiot. It's the most poorly written article in the entire Constitution. The real reason it was included was to give the slaver owners the right to arm up so that they could put down slave rebellions and to kill the Indians. It was never intended to give the people the right to arm up and to overthrow the 1 percenters.
Now compare the Federal Second Amendment to the the language in the New Hampshire State Constitution =
"[Art.] 2-a. [The Bearing of Arms.] All persons have the right to keep and bear arms in defense of themselves, their families, their property and the state.
December 1, 1982"
And note this little gem =
"[Art.] 10. [Right of Revolution.] Government being instituted for the common benefit, protection, and security, of the whole community, and not for the private interest or emolument of any one man, family, or class of men; therefore, whenever the ends of government are perverted, and public liberty manifestly endangered, and all other means of redress are ineffectual, the people may, and of right ought to reform the old, or establish a new government. The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
June 2, 1784"
As far as I know that's the only official government document in America that says that the people have the right to revolt. It sure as hell isn't in the Federal Constitution.
https://www.nh.gov/constitution/billofrights.html
@Diotrephes
You are a fount of obscure information, and if this one is true...brilliant. I shall be hounding my local members to make it part of the Australian constitution....
"..so many Americans are so passionately committed to the 2nd amendment,.."
They're not for the 2nd amendment, they are against it. They misinterpret it.
It reminds me of how they interpret scripture to mean whatever they want it to mean.
The psyche of the people who insist that everyone should have the right to carry an assault rifle maybe against the spirit of the second amendment of course, but again I find myself wondering why anyone needs an assault rifle? I can't think of that many reasons to justify a civilian carrying a handgun to be honest. If I lived somewhere where i could only feel safe if I was armed I'd leave. In the UK as a young man you're more likely to die in pub fight than be shot, or get stabbed if you live in certain parts of certain cities. Gun crime is relatively rare, Our police force still don't carry guns as a matter of course. Though I now have to get used to occasionally seeing armed police on the gate when I attend a rugby match, a sad sign of the times.
ZeffD,
Did you know that most States have the right to bear arms in their State Constitutions?
They range from the bland to the complex. California, New York, New Jersey, Maryland, Virginia, Minnesota, Iowa, North Dakota, Nebraska, do not have the right to bear arms in their Constitutions.
1. New Hampshire =" [Art.] 2-a. [The Bearing of Arms.] All persons have the right to keep and bear arms in defense of themselves, their families, their property and the state.
December 1, 1982"
2. Maine = Section 16. To keep and bear arms. Every citizen has a right to keep and bear arms and this right shall never be questioned.
3. Vermont = Article 16. [Right to bear arms; standing armies; military power subordinate to civil]
That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the State--and as standing armies in time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; and that the military should be kept under strict subordination to and governed by the civil power.
4. Delaware = § 20. Right to keep and bear arms.
Section 20. A person has the right to keep and bear arms for the defense of self, family, home and State, and for hunting and recreational use.
5. Connecticut = SEC. 15. Every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself and the state.
6. Massachusetts = Article XVII.
The people have a right to keep and to bear arms for the common defence. And as, in time of peace, armies are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be maintained without the consent of the legislature; and the military power shall always be held in an exact subordination to the civil authority, and be governed by it.
7. Pennsylvania = § 21. Right to bear arms. The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned.
8. West Virginia = 3-22. Right to keep and bear arms. A person has the right to keep and bear arms for the defense of self, family, home and state, and for lawful hunting and recreational use.
9. Kentucky = Section 1 Seventh: The right to bear arms in defense of themselves and of the State, subject to the power of the General Assembly to enact laws to prevent persons from carrying concealed weapons.
10. North Carolina = Sec. 30. Militia and the right to bear arms.
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; and, as standing armies in time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they shall not be maintained, and the military shall be kept under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power. Nothing herein shall justify the practice of carrying concealed weapons, or prevent the General Assembly from enacting penal statutes against that practice.
11. South Carolina = SECTION 20. Right to keep and bear arms; armies; military power subordinate to civil authority; how
soldiers quartered.
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. As, in times of peace, armies are dangerous to liberty, they shall not be maintained without the consent of the General Assembly. The military power of the State shall always be held in subordination to the civil authority and be governed by it. No soldier shall in time of peace be quartered in any house without the consent of the owner nor in time of war but in the manner prescribed by
law. (1970 (56) 2684; 1971 (57) 315.)
12. Georgia = Paragraph VIII. Arms, right to keep and bear. The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, but the General Assembly shall have power to prescribe the manner in which arms may be borne.
13. Florida = SECTION 8. Right to bear arms.—
(a) The right of the people to keep and bear arms in defense of themselves and of the lawful authority of the state shall not be infringed, except that the manner of bearing arms may be regulated by law.
(b) There shall be a mandatory period of three days, excluding weekends and legal holidays, between the purchase and delivery at retail of any handgun. For the purposes of this section, “purchase” means the transfer of money or other valuable consideration to the retailer, and “handgun” means a firearm capable of being carried and used by one hand, such as a pistol or revolver. Holders of a concealed weapon permit as prescribed in Florida law shall not be subject to the provisions of this paragraph.
(c) The legislature shall enact legislation implementing subsection (b) of this section, effective no later than December 31, 1991, which shall provide that anyone violating the provisions of subsection (b) shall be guilty of a felony.
(d) This restriction shall not apply to a trade in of another handgun.
History.—Am. C.S. for S.J.R. 43, 1989; adopted 1990.
14. Alabama = SECTION 26 Right to bear arms.
That every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself and the state.
15. Mississippi = SECTION 12. Right to bear arms. The right of every citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person, or property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall not be called in question, but the Legislature may
regulate or forbid carrying concealed weapons.
16. Arkansas = § 5. Right to bear arms. The citizens of this State shall have the right to keep and bear arms, for their common
defense.
17. Louisiana = §11. Right to Keep and Bear Arms Section 11. The right of each citizen to keep and bear arms is fundamental and shall not be infringed. Any restriction on this right shall be subject to strict scrutiny.
Amended by Acts 2012, No. 874, §1, approved November 6, 2012, eff. December 10, 2012.
18. Missouri = Right to keep and bear arms, ammunition, and certain accessories--exception--rights to be unalienable.
Section 23. That the right of every citizen to keep and bear arms, ammunition, and accessories typical to the normal function of such arms, in defense of his home, person, family and property, or when lawfully summoned in aid of the civil power, shall not be questioned. The rights guaranteed by this section shall be unalienable. Any restriction on these rights shall be subject to strict scrutiny and the state of Missouri shall be obligated to uphold these rights and shall under no circumstances decline to protect against their infringement. Nothing in this section shall be construed to prevent the general assembly from enacting general laws which limit the rights of convicted violent felons or those adjudicated by a court to be a danger to self or others as result of a mental disorder or mental infirmity.
Source: Const. of 1875, Art. II, § 17.
(Amended August 5, 2014)
(2016) Section does not prohibit the state legislature from regulating the possession of firearms by nonviolent felons. State v. Clay, 481 S.W.3d 531 (Mo.).
19. Tennessee = Section 26. That the citizens of this state have a right to keep and to bear arms for their common defense; but the Legislature shall have power, by law, to regulate the wearing of arms with a view to prevent crime.
20. Ohio = I.04 Bearing arms; standing armies; military powers (1851)
The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security; but standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, and shall not be kept up; and the military shall be in strict subordination to the civil power.
21. Indiana = Section 32. Arms--Right to bear Section 32. The people shall have a right to bear arms, for the defense of themselves and the State.
22. Illinois = SECTION 22. RIGHT TO ARMS Subject only to the police power, the right of the individual citizen to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
23. Wisconsin = Right to keep and bear arms. Section 25. [As created Nov. 1998] The people have the right to keep and bear arms for security, defense, hunting, recreation or any other lawful purpose. [1995 J.R. 27, 1997 J.R. 21, vote November 1998]
The state constitutional right to bear arms is fundamental, but it is not absolute. This section does not affect the reasonable regulation of guns. The standard of review for challenges to statutes allegedly in violation of this section is whether the statute is a reasonable exercise of police power. State v. Cole, 2003 WI 112, 264 Wis. 2d 520, 665 N.W.2d 328, 01-0350.
24. Michigan = § 6 Bearing of arms. Sec. 6. Every person has a right to keep and bear arms for the defense of himself and the state.
25. South Dakota = § 24. Right to bear arms. The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the state shall not be denied.
26. Kansas = § 4. Individual right to bear arms; armies.
A person has the right to keep and bear arms for the defense of self, family, home and state, for lawful hunting and recreational use, and for any other lawful purpose; but standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, and shall not be tolerated, and the military shall be in strict subordination to the civil power.
27. Oklahoma = Section II-26: Bearing arms - Carrying weapons.
The right of a citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person, or property, or in aid of the civil power, when
thereunto legally summoned, shall never be prohibited; but nothing herein contained shall prevent the Legislature from
regulating the carrying of weapons.
28. Texas = Sec. 23. RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS; REGULATION OF WEARING OF ARMS. Every citizen shall have the right to keep and bear arms in the lawful defense of himself or the State; but the Legislature shall have power, by law, to regulate the wearing of arms, with a view to prevent crime.
29. Idaho = SECTION 11. RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS. The people have the right to keep and bear arms, which right shall not be abridged; but this provision shall not prevent the passage of laws to govern the carrying of weapons concealed on the person nor prevent passage of legislation providing minimum sentences for crimes committed while in possession of a firearm, nor prevent the passage of legislation providing penalties for the possession of firearms by a convicted felon, nor prevent the passage of any legislation punishing the use of a firearm. No law shall impose licensure, registration or special taxation on the ownership or possession of firearms or ammunition. Nor shall any law permit the confiscation of firearms, except those actually used in the commission of a felony.
30. Utah = Article I, Section 6. [Right to bear arms.]
The individual right of the people to keep and bear arms for security and defense of self, family, others, property, or the state, as well as for other lawful purposes shall not be infringed; but nothing herein shall prevent the Legislature from defining the lawful use of arms.
31. Nevada = Sec. 11. Right to keep and bear arms; civil power supreme.
1. Every citizen has the right to keep and bear arms for security and defense, for lawful hunting and recreational use and for other lawful purposes.
32. Colorado = Text of Section 13:
Right to Bear Arms
The right of no person to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall be called in question; but nothing herein contained shall be construed to justify the practice of carrying concealed weapons.
***
You can look up the rest of them but as you can plainly see the States regard the bearing of arms as an individual right, generally not to be screwed with except for certain laws that may be applied, such as carrying concealed weapons.
I would also add that free mental health care might solve many crime problems, as well as helping the economy.
(I regard that a human right in a developed country).
I agree, and making guns harder to get hold of wouldn't be a bad idea either. not all gun crimes are committed by people who are mentally ill.
Freedom from want would help, too. All the free mental health care in the world won't do a damn thing if the societal burden that broke you in the first place remains. A pill or counsellor won't do much to fix the fact you work 60 hours a week but can't put a roof over your head or food on the table. Not saying that's a factor in a given school shooting, but it is a huge factor in mental health.
I heard two statements today on MSNBC that made sense.
One person said that the powers to be aren't interested in the "right to bear arms" they are interested in the "right to SELL arms!"
Another pointed out that many western nations are just as violent as the US per population but they aren't as lethal because those nations don't allow guns!
Self Defense:
- Ideal tool: Pepper spray. You can effectively deter and disable, (aim for the eyes!) an attacker, from range, requires little to no practice to use effectively, relatively cheap, does not kill anyone, or even permanently injure anyone, which is really helpful both in the case of mistakes, (perhaps mistaken identity, or children playing with it.) And reducing hesitation time. You can spray first and ask questions later, with a lot less consequences then shooting someone first and asking questions later.
-Not ideal tool: An assault rifle, very expensive, takes a lot of training to use properly, especially in self defense encounters any civilian would actually encounter in their life times, also critically, bullets from rifles keep traveling past your intended target. (Many people are killed by stray bullets that either miss or pass through intended targets, an assault rifle round fired can go through multiple walls and floors before it stops.) Needs to be stored properly, loaded, maintained, (Ideal use is wartime use firing at other people trained in gun use with intent to kill that usually involves greater range and cover.)
Hunting:
- Ideal tool: hunting rifle: high precision low ammo use, light enough to be held for long periods (target acquisition in dense foliage) as well as transportation through rough terrain, minimized recoil to allow for greater accuracy, easily recoverable rounds (do you really want to try and find extra bullets in a carcass?) Lower cost, if hunting for food; if the guns, rounds, and hunting trip cost a lot, it is far more economical to buy food off the shelf instead. (Those that do it for sport, all bets are off, people tend to be irrational when it comes to sport.) Penetrating power to pierce thick skulls on large game, (you want to shoot for the head so the animal does not run off injured.)
Militia:
- first there is no need for a militia when the US has by far the largest military presence in the world, spending nearly as much money on military as the rest of the world does combined. Additionally the advancement of military tech and current battlefield strategy makes assault rifles mostly obsolete for the one job they are designed for, (killing lots of other armed people in war time.) One drone can wipe out a whole garrison of assault rifle wielding militia, and none of them would ever even see it coming.
@Logic
" - first there is no need for a militia when the US has by far the largest military presence in the world"
The impression I get from talking to militia minded Americans online is its their government they are afraid of. Big government, government tyranny, welfare state, Communism, loss of "freedom". They think they'll have to rebell sooner or later and overthrow the government in the name of democracy.
I wonder if, and for whom, these militia minded Americans are voting for then.
Good question. Maybe they don't vote? Or maybe they swallow their principles and vote for whoever promises not to touch their guns? They dont like taxation, either, not at all. They're very right wing. I actually thought the first one I was talking to was having a lend of me - a bit of a laugh. It took a few more before I realised some Americans really do think that way.
Yep, you hit the nail on the head Sushisnake. They are mostly arming up to defend against what they perceive as the real enemy, big government poised to tax them more and take away their guns. (And their fear of "other." that they been conditioned into believing to blame their problems on instead of looking inward.)
But try and point out the folly of taking on the US military with a handful of guys with some guns and a camp in the woods somewhere and they just get angry and refuse to listen. To me these guys are certifiably nuts.
It's based on the assumption based on the history of terrible world governments,
that all governments while necessary for human order,
In general they are bad and almost always have too much power and will eventually want to control it's people as much as possible.
It might not be tomorrow or next week,
but who knows in a couple of decades or a century what the country or the world will look like.
While I completely agree there should be stricter more sensible gun laws, because obviously no one wants another school shooting.
I am genuinely afraid of our corrupt fucking government forcibly taking away are rights as in Germany during WW2.
Especially with anyone as crazy and awful as Donald Trump as our leader.
Donald Trump making decisions for us is one of the best reasons for the second amendment that I can imagine!
It is not the government that I am most worried about, but the rich corporate interest that have the reins to the government that I am real worried about.
The extremely rich and powerful have a pretty slick setup. They control the government behind the curtain to do the unpopular stuff, use media to paint big government as the bad guys, while they siphon away billions from the millions of hard workers trying to support a family, as social safety nets slowly get stripped away one by one.
Certainly do not like tRump or the republican party, and I have plenty of major complaints to lodge against virtually all democrats as well. As they both pander heavily to their extremely rich benefactors.
@Neal
Has gun ownership actually delivered a better America for most Americans? Are you really free from government tyranny? Are the majority of your citizens doing better than the majority of citizens in other first world countries? Are they more prosperous? If you've answered no to those questions, the only thing gun ownership protects you from is each other, and that backfires spectacularly.
@sushisnake
10,000 LIKE button a definite necessity.
Nobody needs to own a gun, I agree. Especially assault weapons that have been designed to kill the maximum amount of people they can. It is all about access really and while people like Rick Scott, the governor of Florida and it's senator Marco Rubio talk about thoughts and prayers, they took millions from the NRA, so did Trump who got 30 million to enable these massacres. I am not saying Democrats are perfect, but they have been the ones to support common sense gun legislation and the republicans let Obama's ban expire.
Video games, movies and mental illness are meant to distract us all from solving this. The second amendment nuts, the nra, the gop and hunters like to divert us away from gun control so they have their blood money and collect hundreds of assault weapons knowing full well what keep happening.
Finally the killer trained with white supremacists wearing a make America Great hat.
This madness needs to be stopped now!
Attachments
Attach Image/Video?:
Guns are not the problem because if they were bullets would be whizzing through your house all the time.
Knob Creek Machine Gun Shoot = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NZV5tZWgP8
What are you trying to say here?
LogicForTW,
I'm saying that people who own machine guns and have access to large caliber bullets don't go around town shooting up the place. Guns are not the problem.
So the *very* few people that went through the very rigorous and expensive process of being able to legally own machine guns are not shooting up the place? The people that can actually afford to spend a few hundred bucks in rounds that can get spent in a few seconds, thousands of dollars for the gun, thousands more for licensing and finding/moving to a local willing sheriff, these people generally do not shoot up the place?
Who would of thunk?!? Sounds like a form of gun control for a human killing machine actually working.
.
.
Large caliber bullets.. What is your definition of large caliber? Do you mean those M107 Barrett (82) that shoot 50 caliber bullets? Or its "successor" the XM500? That go for a minimum of ~8000 dollars? Each round cost ~a dollar? The extremely unwieldy, high amount of training required completely impractical compared to an assault rifle for killing lots of people fast guns?
You are talking about a tiny subsection of guns, less than 1% of guns in circulation in civilian hands. If anything this points out the problem of guns. If all guns were as expensive, controlled, and sometimes impractical to use for a mass shooting as these guns we would not have nearly as big of a gun problem!
As I said in another post, Japan has very strict gun control, where the US has very lax gun control, here in the US we are over 2000 times more likely to die to gun violence then Japan.
You can not argue that. Thats pure numbers. Guns, (especially certain types if we bring it back to mass shootings) are a huge problem.
Do you think that 19 year old kid in Florida with knives or swords he bought in a local store would of killed 17 and injured dozens more? Remember, that school in Florida had 2 police officers in the school, (they have a small permanent office in the school as per standard for large public high schools in Broward county.) and additionally adult teacher staff that were willing to sacrifice their lives to save their students, that also had training for these incidents and knew how to barricade classroom doors.
Also remember the shooting would of been far worse, if the shooter in his rush, did not realize he could simply open the ballistic glass on his second story window to shoot at fleeing students, and instead fruitlessly tried to shoot through the ballistic glass.
LogicForTW,
LogicForTW,
The difference between the US and Japan is that Americans are independent warriors. Japanese were restricted in who could be fighters. So with a system such as Japan had where there were relatively few fighters it's only natural that the violence level would be lower. In America if someone pissed you off you went upside his head. There was pain and suffering. As a group we are the most vicious killers on the planet. It doesn't matter which race we are. Americans will kill anyone at any time for any reason or for no reason. It doesn't matter who the victim is. It can be our child, parent, sibling, spouse, neighbor, stranger, old person, sick person, cop, criminal, politician, preacher, teacher. It's what we do and we do it very well. Maybe it's something in the water?
Would not say the difference between USA and Japan is that americans are independent warriors. I do not know one way or another if japan restricted who could be fighters, I would guess not, as, how would you do that? Except of course limit access to guns/weapons? I know some people on these boards very familiar with Japan, perhaps they can chime in. Or perhaps a link to a legitimate article about it.
Definitely agree that Americans are among the most vicious killers on the planet. Not hard to "do it well" when anyone over 18 can buy a lethal, easy to use gun for a few hundred bucks and all the ammo they could possibly want.
It is not in the water (or what water we drink plays a very small role,) it is in the lax gun control. It is in a culture of violence, it is in crushing economic inequality, it is the drug nation (prescription or illegal or alcohol) that we are. They even shown that the more religious a group is, the more prone to extreme violence people are.
LogicForTW,
Maybe when you get some extra time you can read about the samurai.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samurai
https://www.britannica.com/topic/samurai
http://www.history.com/topics/samurai-and-bushido
I always found the samurai to be quite cool, but readily admit my knowledge of them is limited only to popular culture/media, if I get a bit of time I will read through your links.
I do not see how guns are not the problem, It is self evident.
If the person in question walked into that school with a baseball bat, the situation could have been far different.
TheBlindWatchmaker,
In the case of a school shooter kids are safer when they are in the building. They are more at risk when they are on a school bus or when they are entering or leaving the building in large numbers.
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