Did you watch the hundred of thousands of brave, scared, honorable, interesting, intelligent, "immigrants" fleeing the horrors of war from Syria. Did you see their courageous, humble, desperate faces. Many of them were lawyers, professors, clerks, secretaries, civil servants, waiters, construction workers etc. Think of the humanity and dignity despite unbelievable hardship. Now close your eyes and picture Donald Trumps face. Concentrate---focus on Donald Trumps face!!! Think of TRUMPS yacht, TRUMPS plane, TRUMPS helicopter, TRUMP golf courses, TRUMP Casinos, TRUMPS beauty pageants, TRUMP TOWERS"... Forget about(for a moment) Trumps racism, or support for Sarah Palin, or Rush Limbaugh, or "Fox News" or his hateful description of Mexicans, or Moslems, or his "belittling" of just about anyone. Forget about his rhetoric about he has he best television show, best selling book, best golf courses, best casinos, best real estate empire, best lover of the bible, best Macys Ties and Shirts, BEST. Donald Trump says he will make America Great Again. DONALD will make the economy great again. DONALD will take care of all the vets. DONALD will deport all the Mexicans most are rapists and murderers. DONALD will fix the economy. DONALD will make great deals and Japan and Mexico and China will "bow" to his greatness. DONALD will destroy ISIS. DONALD "will make America great again"... ...45% of Republicans believe Barack Obama is a Moslem.. 45% think Donald Trump should be President....... 45% of Christians believe in the literal interpretation of the bible(Adam and Eve and the talking snake).
Now to a different topic--Think of all the stupid car commercials.. Think of all the stupid drug commercials. Think of all the ridiculous stupid commercials that are so fucking dumb you get immune to their stupidness. Think of all the superficial fucking bullshit you see and watch everyday. Think of the false laugh track on shows like the Big Bang Theory. Think of the foolish laughter like the idiots on Good Morning America.
Now after all the bullshit you see with your eyes closed. Open your eyes and watch the picture of children dying of hunger and disease in Africa. Open your eyes wider and see the thousands of desperate fleeing immigrants from Syria.
Most of you will not understand the point I am trying to make because you are too dumb to understand my genus. I am greater than even Donald Trump. .. I will make this world the greatest, best, most wonderful, brightest, biggest, most wonderful world in the history of the Universe!!!! God bless
AMERICAN EXCEPTIONALISM ????????????????????????
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Deep, man
Good point, kenny. And yes, I have seen the refugees, in fact I am putting together a German conversation course for them right now and then my wife is teaching the course later this evening. We have gone to the refugee home every day for the last two weeks since they came to our town. And yes, many of them are professionals with advanced degrees who now have nothing.
But they have hope for a better life here and have been largely welcomed.
See, things aren't the same in Germany as in America. America is the home of the three second sound bite; the loud, blustering assholes spewing jingoist garbage and pandering to the lowest common denominator; fear mongers who not only enjoy getting people riled up by tapping into their deepest fears, but actually make huge sums of cash in the process. All that while never even really showing the public what is happening in the world, just bite-sized chunks of news with idiotic commentary.
Germany is by no means perfect, but I'm damned glad to be living here right now instead of the States. No wonder you are so cranky all the time. BTW, you spelled exceptionalism wrong in the title. Also, I don't know what you mean that we are too dumb to understand your genus: you are a Homo, are you not?
C.M.Allen--I always lumped you in with the other morons in this forum-CyberLN, NUTmeg Jeff Pragmatic and others come to mind.I was surprised you understood my satire on American Exceptionalism but it seems you absorbed some of it. I move you up on the intelligence scale from 3 to 5(from 1-10) --good job!!!. 45% of American Christians believe in Adam and Eve and the talking snake, Noah's arc and the earth is 10,000 years old. But that is just the tip of the iceberg.. Read again my post on Donald Trump and American Exceptionalism.. Despite how obvious and superficial and flawed "we" are we surround our selves in a fog of arrogance. We really believe we are better than anyone else. I did move you up to a 5 on the intelligence scale but because I am a super genus with incredible empathy and brilliance you cannot understand my superior intellect .. I suppose when you asked if I was a homo-you meant homosapien. I am not gay_NOT THAT THERE IS ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT God Bless
Though Germany has some of its own weirdness:
http://freethinker.co.uk/2016/06/05/in-germany-it-is-illegal-to-poke-fun...
Kenny - "...Noah's arc..."
Always good for a laugh.
Seems to me you are really just alluding to how dysfunctional America is, and couching it in terms as if it were a secret, but it isn't. Most Americans know how dysfunctional and completely ass-backwards our country has become, but many don't want to admit it, and even fewer are still motivated enough to do anything about it. The vast majority of the country is completely apathetic, few believe that their opinion will matter or change anything, and we probably have the LOWEST voter turnout of any major industrialized democratic country on the planet. Things have been sliding into crazy for decades.
As far as the refugees are concerned, I do think that we(America) should take a more active and prominent role in relocating them. We could take in every single refugee in this crisis and not even raise our population a tenth of a percent, and while I do support some background checks to make sure we aren't taking in the radicalized ISIS fighters, it is also important that we take some of this burden off of Europe and the Baltic states. We were, after all, taking a very active leadership role in nearly all the circumstances and situations that precipitated this crisis in the first place. Though I am sure many people would like us to forget that.
I will leave you with a speech from a movie in the 1970's, discussing how terrible and crazy things had gotten, and by modifying it, let you decide if we have gotten much better since then:
I don't have to tell you things are bad. Everybody knows things are bad. There was a depression. Everybody's out of work or scared of losing their job. The dollar buys a nickel's worth, banks were going bust, shopkeepers keep a gun under the counter. Punks are running wild in the street and there's nobody anywhere who seems to know what to do, and there's no end to it. We know the air is unfit to breathe and our food is unfit to eat, and we sit watching our TV's while some local newscaster tells us that today we had fifteen homicides and sixty-three violent crimes, as if that's the way it's supposed to be. We know things are bad - worse than bad. They're crazy. It's like everything everywhere is going crazy, so we don't go out anymore. We sit in the house, and slowly the world we are living in is getting smaller, and all we say is, 'Please, at least leave us alone in our living rooms. Let me have my computer and my TV and my internet access and I won't say anything. Just leave us alone.' Well, I'm not gonna leave you alone. I want you to get mad! I don't want you to protest. I don't want you to riot - I don't want you to write to your congressman because I wouldn't know what to tell you to write. I don't know what to do about the depression and the inflation and the Muslims and the crime in the street. All I know is that first you've got to get mad. You've got to say, 'I'm a HUMAN BEING, God damn it! My life has VALUE!' So I want you to get up now. I want all of you to get up out of your chairs. I want you to get up right now and go to the window. Open it, and stick your head out, and yell, 'I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!' I want you to get up right now, sit up, go to your windows, open them and stick your head out and yell - 'I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore!' Things have got to change. But first, you've gotta get mad!... You've got to say, 'I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!' Then we'll figure out what to do about the depression and the inflation and the environmental crisis. But first get up out of your chairs, open the window, stick your head out, and yell, and say it: "I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!"
Love that movie, saw it on TMC in 1980 or so. And no, things haven't gotten better. Of course to be fair, every generation seems to think the next generation has lost its collective mind. I cringe every time I hear someone say, "Now more than ever...", or "In these crazy times...", or words to that effect.
Basically, I agree with everything you say above. With the caveat that I don't care enough about people to try and do anything about it, including voting.
"Love that movie, saw it on TMC in 1980 or so."
I enjoyed it, but the bipolar nature of the lead really made it shine in my opinion, it really was quite edgy for its time.
"And no, things haven't gotten better. Of course to be fair, every generation seems to think the next generation has lost its collective mind. I cringe every time I hear someone say, "Now more than ever...", or "In these crazy times...", or words to that effect."
Yes, yes, I know that people often let out a groan when someone has the temerity to say "in the good ole days", but...and there is always a but, isn't there? From the position of the working class things really have gotten worse!
"Basically, I agree with everything you say above. With the caveat that I don't care enough about people to try and do anything about it, including voting."
Don't feel too bad, I don't always vote either, as a lot of time I simply refuse to decide which bowl of shit smells more edible. I may vote this time around, there is a candidate I have my eye on, but time will tell if I will feel the same come time for primary...
"I may vote this time around, there is a candidate I have my eye on, but time will tell if I will feel the same come time for primary..."
OMG! Its Trump, isn't it?
Is Vermin Supreme still in the race? I think it's him.
"When I'm President Everyone Gets A Free Pony"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d_FvgQ1csE
*Tries to hid Bernie Sanders poster*
I do not feel comfortable giving a comment at this time, but I will say a pony based economy is not entirely out of the picture yet...
*Tries to hid Bernie Sanders poster*
With no Nader in the game... yea, me as well.
Travis--Nowhere in my post American Exceptionalism did I mention depression, recession, every bodies out of work, apathy, crime, poverty, and all the other "hardships" you mentioned. Mostly you never respond to my posts because you are not smart enough to understand what I am talking about. Even your response to American Exceptionalism shows me you have no insight or understanding to the profound , interesting and intelligent "issue" I was communicating. American Exceptionalism does not depend on the economy, war, gun control, the environment poverty, distribution of wealth, , or any other "political" issue. American Exceptionslism is a false "attitude" we are "better" than the rest. Travis you seem very angry "I AM PISSED OFF AND WE ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE.".. relax--take it easy-you will have a stroke-- It does not matter how fucked up you think things are going(and that is relative and arguable) . Whether "things" are good or bad exaggerated patriotism(American Exceptionalism) reveals its ugly head. In fact the worse "things" are perceived the greater American Exceptionalism becomes. Nazi Germany is an extreme example of super charged, blind distorted, angry patriotism. All your rambling about all the "things" being bad and "YOUR PISSED AND NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANY MORE only shows you didn't understand what I was talking about American Exceptionalism. Travis I am not surprised you didn't get "IT" because I have little confidence in your ability to understand intelligent issues. You do seem very angry . Lithium or psychological help might help.... God Bless
And you wonder why I don't respond to your posts. I am not sure why I even bother to try to have a conversation above Trump level with your ignorant ass, it surely doesn't go anywhere. I addressed your rather shallow and insignificant point and expanded upon it, in ways and means your troglodyte brain simply can't comprehend, and I actually made a much better point than you did.
"American Exceptionslism is a false "attitude" we are "better" than the rest."
Indeed, and pointing out how we aren't better than the rest is part of what makes it a false attitude. However, when someone dares talk bad about your 'Merica' you fucking get all bent out of shape and attack them for no apparent reason. Goddamn, I know trolls are supposed to act ignorant and belligerent, but at least they are usually consistent about it. Your buffoonery astounds and confounds, I am sure you would do well in Barnum and Bailey, perhaps you should look into it as a new line of work.
Now pardon me while we all stand back in stark awe of your rank vocular ejaculation.
Travis--Your getting "there" but you have got a ways to go. I did detect a very small tiny bit of passion. It is a start but you can do better. Dumb ass I had no problem with you "talking bad" about "America" .In fact much of what you said was worth discussing. Nothing is black and white but your little brain only see's things with your limited intellect. Again American Exceptionalism is about "attitude" and exaggerated patriotism or blindness about the goodness and humanity and dignity of the immigrants fleeing Syria or the poverty and starvation of children in Africa and everything in between. It is not about the politics of Assad, Russian and ISIS or "what we can do to end starvation and death in Africa. All that stuff is so complicated it is insoluble. It is the myth of American Exceptionalism and "its" arrogance that I am talking about. Try to reboot your fragile brain and you might understand "what I am talking about".. God Bless
"
I suppose you could talk about American excellence.
Like the criminal injustice system system which imprisions seven times as many people as similar countries. And the death penalty, and solitary confinement, and plea bargaining, and privatised prisons.
And institutionalised racism with white cops killing poor black people.
And 19 states criminalising gay people.
And no proper health care system for many citizens.
Unlimited gun ownership causing 30,000 deaths a year.
Exceptional is a good word.
You're right, we are exceptional.
Especially our justice system, so many things are unnecessarily or over-criminalized it's really disturbing if you take a minute to think about it.
Although, as a semi-white cop who's never killed a non-white person while on police duty, I'm gonna have to disagree about that one.
Hmm, I have seen a few videos that seemed legitimate cases of unjustified force, but some of the more famous examples they use were actually somewhat justified. Now, I am under the impression that they are trying to inflate the problem to be bigger than it actually is, and I think it is actually starting to have a negative impact on their message. It is improper to treat any and all law enforcement officers as if they are corrupt and likely to kill someone because of race, and while I wouldn't disagree that some reform to the justice system would help both officers and the communities they serve, I do think demonizing police officers will not have anything approaching a positive effect on the system.
I think this is an important discussion to be had among people who are not reactionaries, and who can actually stick to discussion devoid of emotional appeals and poisoning wells. If a person is a dick to someone, it increases the chances they will be a dick to you, no matter who you are or what you have to say. We need serious discussion without assuming the worst in people.
As an outsider, the clear impression is that many police forces seem to be racist. That would have been created by the media but the high-profile cases indicate that. Certainly the ratio of black and hispanics in jail would lead to the implication that the CJS discriminates against them.
The contrary view to the issue of the effect the criticism has on decent LEOs would be one that I heard many times on other forums: the 'blue wall' whereby those officers actively protect the bad apples in their midst. Unless it is admitted that there is a problem it won't be confronted, and a solution found.
"As an outsider, the clear impression is that many police forces seem to be racist."
People killed by law enforcement this year by race:
412 White
212 Black
123 Hispanic/Latino
87 Other/Unknown
16 Asian/Pacific Islander
11 Native American
Hmm, while black Americans were inordinately represented compared to their population(about 13%), it is still a stretch to say that it is all down to racism when the majority of people killed are actually not black.
"That would have been created by the media but the high-profile cases indicate that."
The high-profile case I am aware of is Micheal Brown, which appears to be a less that stellar example of "racism".
"A struggle took place between Brown and Wilson after the former reached through the window of the police SUV, a Chevrolet Tahoe. Wilson's gun was fired twice during the struggle while it was inside the vehicle, with one bullet hitting Brown's right hand. Brown and Johnson fled and Johnson hid behind a car. Wilson got out of the vehicle and pursued Brown. At some point, Wilson fired his gun again, with at least six shots striking Brown, fatally wounding him."
Now, I am not sure the exact circumstances, but to me it is a little odd to claim that this was a race based shooting. If you come at an officer and try to take their weapon, it is assumed you intend to use deadly force, and the officer is allowed to respond to that whether we like it or not.
"Certainly the ratio of black and hispanics in jail would lead to the implication that the CJS discriminates against them."
Indeed, but we can look into this and see where the discrimination lies:
6,214,197 White
2,549,655 Black or African American
140,290 American Indian or Alaska Native
105,109 Asian
5,384 Hawaiian or other Pacific Islander
I don't really see that there is any blatant discrimination is in arrests, so let us look at CONVICTION statistics:
Rate per 100,000 arrests:
White 412
Black 2,290
Hispanic 742
This is where I see the discrimination, not arrests, so shouldn't we be looking at judges and lawyers instead of just the police?
"The contrary view to the issue of the effect the criticism has on decent LEOs would be one that I heard many times on other forums: the 'blue wall' whereby those officers actively protect the bad apples in their midst."
We should probably NOT look at that racially, as I don't think an officer who kills a white person is any more likely to receive a sentence than one that kills a black person. Honestly, I am starting to think that the facts just don't matter in the media if they don't fit a racial narrative. Would you like to have a discussion about this?
It's nice to have a sensible discussion with someone instead of Kenny's inane blathering.
I'm afraid that the stats you produce support my case rather than the alternative. That there are so many more black and hispanic people in jail, arrested and convicted means that there is a big problem. I agree about looking at judges and lawyers, I think my original post was general and would include those categories. In fact you've really only picked up on one aspect of what I said, the police issue (which is understandable btw). It's an institutional problem.
I don't think the 'blue wall' is racist at all, from what I recall from other forums there's a blanket refusal to hold errant LEOs to account, a closing of the ranks, which means the bad apples don't get punished.
You're closer to the US media than I am. I'd expect a polarisation of opinion between left-leaning and right-leaning voices, or does one predominate? I tune into Fox sometimes so I could guess where they go (far away from where I go btw).
In the Brown case, Wilson was cleared of all charges. Here's what a DoJ investigation found though:
On September 5, 2014, the U.S. Department of Justice began an investigation of the Ferguson, Missouri police force to examine whether officers routinely engaged in racial profiling or showed a pattern of excessive force. The investigation was separate from the federal department's other investigation of the shooting of Michael Brown.[238] The results of the investigation were released in a March 4, 2015 report, which concluded that police officers in Ferguson routinely violated the constitutional rights of the city's residents, by discriminating against African Americans and applying racial stereotypes, in a "pattern or practice of unlawful conduct"
"I don't think the 'blue wall' is racist at all, from what I recall from other forums there's a blanket refusal to hold errant LEOs to account, a closing of the ranks, which means the bad apples don't get punished."
It has been my experience that the above is not true. There is not 'blanket refusal', and 'bad apples' frequently get punished.
"I'm afraid that the stats you produce support my case rather than the alternative."
Hmm, I am not sure the stats back up a narrative that law enforcement officers are the biased agents in the system. On any given day an officer is MORE likely to arrest a white person, MORE likely to kill a white person, and MORE likely to restrain a white person. This is as one should expect, given the demographics of our society, and are representative of a society that has a white majority. The problem, seems to me, must be in the judicial system instead.
"That there are so many more black and hispanic people in jail, arrested and convicted means that there is a big problem."
More are convicted, not arrested. This suggests that the problem does not lie with the police, but judges and district attorneys, they are the ones we should be taking a harder look at.
"I agree about looking at judges and lawyers, I think my original post was general and would include those categories. In fact you've really only picked up on one aspect of what I said, the police issue (which is understandable btw). It's an institutional problem."
Indeed, but I have yet to see many people looking into the policies in place that cause the disparity, for those are what we need to dig up and challenge.
"I don't think the 'blue wall' is racist at all, from what I recall from other forums there's a blanket refusal to hold errant LEOs to account, a closing of the ranks, which means the bad apples don't get punished."
Hmm, I would need some studies and citations to tell you how big a problem the "blue wall" is, but I wouldn't be completely surprised if some form of it existed. The fact of the matter is that the court does give the testimony of officers more weight than ordinary citizens, out of necessity more than faith, because otherwise they would be rather useless in an official capacity. Also, in-group preference is a mainstay in almost any group, especially when the job contains risks and dangers that the group shares.
"You're closer to the US media than I am."
I do live in the US, so if you don't, I probably am.
"I'd expect a polarisation of opinion between left-leaning and right-leaning voices, or does one predominate?"
The narrative of police brutality and the problem being the police dominates the media, there are only a FEW stations that take another stance. Those other channels often go WAYYY to far the other direction, giving moderates very little in the way of media that presents an accurate picture.
"I tune into Fox sometimes so I could guess where they go (far away from where I go btw)."
I could tell you what a BAD choice that is, but I can imagine you already know that.
"In the Brown case, Wilson was cleared of all charges."
True, but he is often still cited as a "victim" despite evidence, and people still use his name as a stick to prop up this media narrative. I think it is important to remember that all is not what it appears, or what how people want it to appear.
"Here's what a DoJ investigation found though:
On September 5, 2014, the U.S. Department of Justice began an investigation of the Ferguson, Missouri police force to examine whether officers routinely engaged in racial profiling or showed a pattern of excessive force. The investigation was separate from the federal department's other investigation of the shooting of Michael Brown.[238] The results of the investigation were released in a March 4, 2015 report, which concluded that police officers in Ferguson routinely violated the constitutional rights of the city's residents, by discriminating against African Americans and applying racial stereotypes, in a "pattern or practice of unlawful conduct"
This corroborates that they are engaged in racial profiling, it was NOT able to establish a pattern of excessive force. In the study they definitively showed that 93% of all traffic stops were African American drivers, despite them being 67-68% of the population. That did not, however, show that an African American was MORE likely to be the victim of violence from officers in the even of arrest. We should also remember that.
"People killed by law enforcement this year by race:
412 White
212 Black
123 Hispanic/Latino
87 Other/Unknown
16 Asian/Pacific Islander
11 Native American"
I'd be interested to know the demographics of the officers who had to use this lethal force.
I tried to look into this, but couldn't find any statistics from this year. If it is similar to the last two years, however, it is likely that it will be 60-70% white officers. Don't know if that helps you.
I've looked as well and am unable to find any stats that show the LE demographics in combination with the demographics you cited. I would find it interesting to see if the percentiles stay even across all those LE demographics. Thanks for bringing actual numbers into the discussion.
The working people in America have become so disgusted with this country...politicians, corruption, corrupt police, corrupt unions that are NOW nothing but a springboard for political gain...all the big shots are just out for themselves. The people that are making millions of dollars ( the 1%) are standing up there saying we must cut jobs, raise taxes, increase utility rates,transportation rates, while all the big time companies are getting fatter than ever on our hard working dollar. Why don't these creeps that seem to do nothing but lie, cheat, and steal/mismanage our money, put in a % of their greedy, hefty paychecks, that would be a drop in the bucket for these sleazeballs...that would solve a good many of our financial problems without having to put so many people out of work. The politicians should have to show accountability and pay restitution for EVERY DOLLAR that was stolen, or mismanaged...and in addition, ifd caught commiting a crime while in public service...NO PENSION, NO HEALTHCARE, NO MONEY, NO LOOPHOLES..THEY ARE FIRED!!! Until we start hitting these greedy creeps in the pocketbook, the nonsense WILL continue.But this scenario, alas, will NEVER HAPPEN... why? because the people breaking the laws are the people that are writing them!!! THATS WHY THERE ARE ALL THE LOOPHOLES FOR THEM TO GET AWAY WITH MURDER) The biggest shame is thatlees than half the country votes, because they know nothing will change, and their vote means absolutely nothing. It's a disgrace. We are no longer the "greatest country in the world," and haven't been for quite sometime. ( siNnce WWII)
Reality-Please read back all your recent posts on different subjects.. Take your time read slowly.. Pay specific attention to your CAP LOCKS. You need help-psychiatry or years of counseling may be necessary... Your anger is way way way out of control... Maybe Prozac or lithium may help. God Bless
Every single one of you endlessly with momentum and anger ridiculed all the problems with America .... Reality's disgust with everything going wrong in America pretty much summed up all your attitudes about America... Reality better control himself as his out of control anger seems bizarre and lithium or psychological help might be necessary. NUT meg and the rest of you dumbasses jumped on the ban wagon and went on and on and on about "EVERYTHING" wrong with America.. The amount of "disgust" you articulated can be summed up in Reality's post. The list of complaints was endless from "politicians to corruption, taxes, jobs, utility rates, the greedy 1% heath care, big corporations, loopholes, and on and on and on and on and on. The on and on and on went so on and on and on-it seemed all your complaints would never end....BUT--THAT WAS NOT THE ARGUMENT!!!!!!. Despite all your "despair" of what "America" is----I never in my post of American Exceptionalism complained about any of the "things" you mentioned. What is good or bad is expressed by everyone differently depending on politics, or religion or attitudes etc... American Exceptionslism manifests its ugly head whether the United States is perceived as good or bad. It is a false sense of patriotism The irony is when the U.S. is struggling American Exceptionalism seems to become stronger. The tea party or the strength of Donald Trump is an example of patriotism gone amuck. American Exceptionalism is buried in the belief by Americans- that the Judeo-Christian values are superior to all others. THATS IT... What's going right or wrong with American is irrelevant. Anyways all that stuff is open to interpretation. As I described----Close your eyes--tight- Think of the immigrants with dignity, fear, courage and hope fleeing Syria...Keep you eyes closed---Think of the children in Africa bravely facing, pain hardship, and starvation.... OPEN your eyes.... Think of Donald Trumps Jet, Donald Trumps Helicopter, Donald Trumps trophy wife, Donald Trumps, golf courses, Donald Trump Buildings,.... Keep you eyes wide open----Think of the car commercials, the drug commercials, the Viagra commercials, the stupid laugh tracks on the Big Bang Theory and all the actors getting a million dollars an episode, Vanna White and the Wheel of Fortune, Mike Huckabee, Ted Cruz, Bill Oreilly, Sarah Palin, the crazy evangelists(Joel Osteen and a thousand others), Fox News, and on and on and on and on. on.... Close your eyes again- think of the immigrants fleeing Syria--open your eyes and think of Sarah Palin--close your eyes think of starving babies in Africa--open your eyes think of Joel Osteen. AMERICAN EXCETIONALISM ?????????-God Bless
Btw, the discussion was about America. There are plenty of similar discussions to be had about other nations too. For example, the suicide rate in France is much higher than comparable countries.
I don't want anyone to think I'm biased about the States. I used to live there and came across many pleasant people, and I visited there on business many times.
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