One of the main problems that i have with religious people is that they think that their lives worth more that the lives of any other living thing on this planet because of they scripture . I understand that it is a part of evolution wanting to protect your species over any other but now we are the rulers of this planet and we must protect its wild life ! i think that a big problem with religion is that those who believe in it think that this world is temporary and it doesn't matter if it gets obliterated because the Apocalypse will come and the world will end anyway !! So what are your thoughts ??
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Well, I'm not so sure my life is worth more but I sure as heck will end the life of another living thing to sustain my own....think in terms of food.
I dont mean as food :) ! Im not a vegetarian my self !! I mean in terms of Poluttion witch leads to the deaths of animals and sea life , hunting wild life to extinction and things of that nature .
I do enjoy eating animals.
But I know what you mean regarding the chistian notion that we can shit all over this planet because Jesus is coming. Conservative politicians get a ton of mileage out of that.
My position is that all life is not equal but for reasons that are completely at odds with religion. To illustrate, killing a 130 year old Orca matriarch of a Bering Straight killer whale pod is a greater tragedy than killing a lobster. The orcas deeply know each other, depend on each other, will suffer from depression and from the loss of a loved one. To kill an orca robs that orca of its memories and intended future. The death of a lobster is of real consequence to that lobster, but its capacity to suffer loss is measurably smaller than an orca's capacity to suffer loss.
The Bible asserts that god created everything for his human children, that he has given dominion over all life to mankind, that he has given all animals to be food for mankind, and that no animal dies without the will of god. The Bible asserts that humans have souls and are eternal, whereas animals do not.
Humans, like every species, are in a 4 billion year old struggle to exist. Our fight has made a lot of sense up until recently. We were fighting for existence. But now there are 7.5 billion of us, we can kill animals and species at will, and we can model nature and all of its knhabitants to our own purposes. We as a species must recognize that we share this planet and restrain ourselves from crushing all that is beautiful.
The issue of food is a subject I will largely avoid, except to say this: If a person is given a choice between two identical meals where one plate required another being to suffer and the second plate required no suffering, only an ignorant individual or moral monster would choose the plate that required suffering.
I agree with you ! Especially on that last part . We humans should do whatever we want but we should not overdo it .. this planet is (as far as we know) one of a kind and it would be realy stupid to destroy it .. for me humanity isn't just being moral to other people but caring about all life and avoiding unnecessary suffering ! .. I liked the bit where you mentioned Orcas , so you mean that if an animal's mind and behavior resebles more that of a human it is worth more .. that is something im gonna have to think about htank yu for that :) !
I think it's more a matter of self awareness in such species than being human-like. We just happen to be the dominant species so it goes without saying that we also are exceptionally self aware.
Thanks, Constantine! I have to think more about it as well. I don't mean to imply that a being must be more like humans. I've read a fair amount about some species of octopus; they have a distributed neural network (brain) that is radically different from the Vertebrates, but they have a potential level of awareness that is stunning. We are separated by over 600 million years of evolution, and they are potentially the most alien "aware" being that we've ever encountered. Their similarity with humans is not the key to me, it is their capacity to suffer and experience life. It seems to me that themore a species has those qualities, the greater the loss of that being. Like I say, I have to think more about it as well.
All life is not equal, in terms of Nature, there are certain hierarchies about what dominates over what and what eats what.
For example over WHAT EATS WHAT,
Grass - Rabbit - Fox - Etc...
Tree leaves - Giraffe - Lion.
Different Flora (Algae, etc...) - Fish (Clown Fish, Anchovies etc..) - Larger Fish (Atlantic Bonito, Haddock, etc..) - X Large Fish (Sharks etc..) - Gigantic Fish (Whales etc...) - This last one depends if the Fish eats meat or not as there are many types of large and smaller fish that is carnivore, vegetarian or omnivore (which I don't know many of).
------------------
Now about Social Hierarchy (What Dominates over What)
We have Lions, a perfect example is when a Male duels with another Male to gain control of the Pack. Or when it's breeding season and they have to assure their female counterparts of their Strength as parents.
~~~~~~~~~~
Now as seen above, there is strict proof that Life is Technically, not EQUAL. We'd all kill another being to survive (even to the point of cannibalism), so it's pretty obvious that we're not all totally EQUAL.
I understand what you are saying perfectly ! When i say equal i mean that every living organism is equally important in a natural habitat so it can function normally .. you can argue that the animals that are higher in the food chane aren't as important! My point was that life whole species are in danger just because people dont care enough and one big factor about that is religious thinking .. if you think that this world is going to end anyway there is no reason to pretect it ( exept if you are a highly moral person ) another factor is economy but lets not get to that .,
It's kind of Idiotic to say that we shouldn't protect them because the world is going to end anyways. I value Animals' lives as much as I value that of a Human life, because unlike Humans they are the best companions you will ever have and won't ever bother you because they're too cute to do that :3. Cats, snakes or dogs, whatever they are, those who share a connection with Animals will never share the same connection with a Human, it's a special feeling.
But anyways, regarding Religion, yes, it's dumb, but what else did you expect from Religion.
No offense, but you should pay attention to proper grammar and punctuation, it's kind of hard to understand what you're trying to say.
The Bible asserts that god created everything for his human children, that he has given dominion over all life to mankind, that he has given all animals to be food for mankind, and that no animal dies without the will of god. The Bible asserts that humans have souls and are eternal, whereas animals do not.
Well said Truett. This is also yet another example of just how antiquated the bible is. It's based on the perspectives of men who had ZERO understanding of factors such as the one you mentioned (intellect of Orcas etc.) We've made incredible advances with regard to our knowledge of the planet we live on and it's inhabitants yet somehow we as a species continue to subscribe to those same ideas that have been proven to be obsolete over and over again. Sam Harris made a great point when he referred to religion as "a failed science". At some point, we stopped referring to flat earth as the other theory of what this planet looks like and we embraced the fact that we live on a sphere. Flat earth had just lost its credibility, and the feelings of flat earth believers were at best secondary to the necessity to teach our kids how shit actually works. In that same way, perhaps it's time for the God theory to be disregarded.
Sorry about the scatterbrained post. I've had way to much coffee this morning!
Thanks, JB God's Country. I agree about Sam Harris; I've been influenced by him as well. It is said that we progress because we stand on the shoulders of giants. We stand taller and see further because of Sam Harris.
Humans may be the most advanced animal on the planet, but it doesn't make us superior to all other animals. The planet won't miss humanity when it dies off. Humans are very weak and fragile, we have no natural weapons to defend us from other animals.
Hi Xeno,
I'm nitpicking here, but I think history has demonstrated that our brains have been very potent "natural weapons to defend us from other animals."
Humans need technology and tools to defend ourselves from other animals.
Not always.
I am a lover of nature and wildlife. I detest humans for the most part. To think a species that regularly murders, pollutes, destroys just for fun is somehow superior is ludicrous.
I can relate ! Since we control this world we should protect it now destroy it !
I agree with mykob4. we assert our dominance over nature by destroying it rather than sustaining it. Seems like soon enough the tides might turn unless of course we correct our ways.