@LogicFTW

You are probably one of the more reasonable theist/apologist I have seen here in awhile. It would be real nice to me if most of the theist I deal with in my family or otherwise adopted a stance closer to what you talk about here.

Thanks, you are most kind. I can be unreasonable though, as well, of course.

Cool I wish more theist held that attitude. I think many theist push the full on omni's god and afterlife because thats what THEY need, even if it is not reality. It seems you expect much less from your interpretation of god, and I consider that a much healthier stance then quite a few of the highly religious people I encounter here or in life.

Yeah. They need or want it or they didn't bother to look beyond the tradition.

Of course from my stance; god, the bibles, religion etc are all human made too, so it keeps in line with humans doing harmful things to each other. It is not all doom and gloom though, I am fully aware humans have done many nice things for each other as well. We would not have advanced as far as we have if we did not work together and try to make things better for all of us. My dad was and still is quite religious, but I would still say he did a great job raising me and I would not be 1/2 the man I am now without my fathers direction growing up.

I could say the same for my father, who was and still is atheist.

I feel a god that could create the entire earth/universe and everything on it in 7 days, (okay not sure how literal you take genesis.) Anyways, such a god could of easily at the least instead of doing all his "evidencing" and miracles, instead of geographically located pretty much strictly in the more immediate surround area of mediterranean sea, he could of also revealed himself and did miracles etc everywhere where there was humans. Much of the world population then (and now) are very much cut off from the area of the mediterranean sea. No one in the Americas ever heard of any abrahamic (or many other gods) until east europe brought their religions with them across the Atlantic.

My take on Genesis can be found on my website Here. It's a literal interpretation but the 7 days are not literal days. For example, the seventh day began after the completion of the creation and the making of it habitable for men, and continues to this day thousands of years later.

And the thing you have to understand about the Bible is that it wasn't written for us, as such. It was written for the people in the times of it's writing. It's useful to us only as an example. For our information. For this reason Paul said that all of the healing, speaking in tongues, prophesies, etc. would end upon the deaths of the apostles. It was accomplished. And too, you have to realize the meaning of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, namely; it's about the vindication of Jehovah God's name through the ransom sacrifice of Christ Jesus.

So, Jehovah created Adam and Eve to live forever in paradise and to fill and subdue the Earth. Adam rejected that and brought about death, so that mankind couldn't destroy themselves and end God's purpose for them. So Jehovah made a nation with laws that informed the people that they couldn't uphold them, to inform them of their sin and the need for salvation from their own destruction. Also to provide that salvation, justice through Christ. Originally meant only for the Jews, but religiosity transmogrified them and they rejected Christ. See the parable of the Wedding Feast (Matthew 22:1-14) So the resurrection hope was extended to the Gentiles, or peoples of the nations along with the Jews who accepted Christ.

There will be a resurrection of the unrighteous so they, that is those not having had the opportunity to make an informed decision will have that opportunity then. (Acts 24:15)

Do have to ask though, if there isn't really a heaven or hell, or much of a requirement to "be with god," then why bother? Why bother read about him, study the literature, spread religion etc, if in the end it doesn't really matter? For me looking at the available evidence and being firmly convinced there is no god, I do not lose out on much if I am wrong. So is there any reason to change my view even if I was convinced if there really was a god similar to the one you believe in?

There is a heaven, and a few, 144,000, will go there in spirit form to judge with Jesus. And hell, well, that's an old English word which means to cover or conceal. It's basically the common grave of man.

So, what you lose out on is the possibility to live forever on paradise Earth, without sickness, disease, crime, death, sin, Satan, etc.