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Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
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Tin-man,
The thing about arming teachers is that you have to find a large number of pyschos who have cold-blooded killer instincts and are willing to put a clip of hot lead into 12 year-old kid at the drop of an eraser. And once the corpse is carted out pick up the eraser and continue teaching the other rug rats as if nothing had happen and that you didn't kill Little Johnny. I think such a person's reputation would end up in the toilet after that.
Imagine being a parent and going to a teacher's conference with a teacher who killed a kid in the school room you are meeting in. And the teacher makes a remark that you interpret as meaning that your Little Bobby is a pain in the ass. I doubt if you will leave with a warm and fuzzy feeling.
@Dio Re: "...Imagine being a parent and going to a teacher's conference with a teacher who killed a kid in the school..."
Yep. You are correct. And the teacher would also potentially suffer a few psychological problems after that. Would not be a pleasant thing no matter which way you look at it. I could probably write an entire paper on that subject alone.
@Dio Re: "The thing about arming teachers is that you have to find a large number of pyschos who have cold-blooded killer instincts..."
if you don't mind, there is something I would like to address real quick that I missed last night when I first responded. (I was mentally pooped at the time and was in a hurry about to go to bed.) While I am reasonably certain your statement about finding teachers who are cold-blooded psychos was meant as an exaggeration, I would like to make it clear to any others reading that the real problem is actually less dramatic but considerably more complicated than that. Although I am no psychology expert in any way, I do imagine finding a few "psycho teachers" would not really be that difficult. I've known quite a few, actually. LOL The TRUE problem and difficulty will be finding enough teachers who are sound of mind, psychology and mentally stable, have mature and tested reasoning/decision-making skills, and who are capable of handling extreme-stress situations. And then out of THOSE very few/rare candidates you will have to find and select the ones who would actually be willing to take on the incredibly serious and grave responsibility of having to potentially take the life of a child without hesitation. I am glad you brought that up, because it is a damn good point. Because if people expect a teacher in that situation to simply go back to "business as usual" after performing such a dreadful act (regardless of how necessary it may have been), then to those people I would say, "Kiss my ass, you idiots."
For the sake of continuity, I believe I will transfer this post over to the Armed Teacher thread.
@ TM
Read the blog section of this website..them's blogs pardner...what you is already doin' Mar-lon.
See I have god powers! Alabamie is MINE *mad godlike laughter*
GFU, TM. Love it.
Just my perspective as a former gun nut:
If the notion is that someone is keeping guns in their home for protection, then I've never understood gun safes. In my experience, if and when the nightmare scenario happens you'll be lucky to be able to get to your gun(s) if they are not stored in safes. With a gun safe it is even worse. In this situation, the use of a gun safe seems almost like an admission that you don't really need access to a gun in the first place.
Of course for other purposes, gun safes make more sense. They provide a secure way for sports shooters, hunters, security guards, and law enforcement to have a place to securely store their equipment until they go back to hunting/shooting range/or work.
Just my 2 bits!
I actually agree, in the extremely rare case that an armed assailant is in your home and you only got seconds to react, a gun safe is completely impractical.
Hell, a gun is barely more practical for home defense unless you always keep your gun loaded and within a few seconds reach at all hours of everyday you are in your home. Might as well wear the gun at all times and when asleep, sleep with the gun under your pillow. Exactly the kind of person that probably should not have a gun, and if strictly for legal self defense, the same person should seek out a safer place to live and rest their head. All of which would be extremely impractical for an assault rifle. We are not child soldiers living in a war torn country.
Stories where a gun in the home made a real positive contribution for an innocent law abiding family safety are very rare. Esp. considering there are 300+ million guns in this country.
@ Nyar
which is why In Australia you not only must have a gun safe but also store the ammunition separately in a secure place (locked steel cabinet or similar). Same as in UK...oh wait number of school massacres in the UK and Australia in the last 18 years ? hmm? oh yes....ZERO.
@Nyarlathotep
thanks for a good answer. sounds pretty useless to me. my brother had lots -- and i mean LOTS -- of guns but nary a gun safe. we were never broken into, nobody ever got shot while playing with a gun because nobody played with guns, and there were no accidental shootings because Eric always cleaned his guns after he used them. no mental health issues ever reared their heads, either. we were just a normal South Jersey household bristling with guns and ammo. (not really -- i just wanted to use the word "bristling" haha. but Eric did have quite the collection.)
Sounds like an at least semi competent gun owner. (Except for not storing them in a gun safe part.)
Also sounds like many thousands of dollars spent for a hobby.
Never had a break in so far, sounds like the average statistical odds for most homes these days. Break in to a family home are rare these days, guns present or not. There is no way to tell if the presence of guns ever staved off a potential home break in. I need to look up the statistics, but I believe the stats are, homes with guns in them, especially unstored in a safe are more likely to be broken into then homes w/o guns.
Most break ins are premeditated, and the criminal simply waits for the home owners to leave the home.
@Logic
it was more than a hobby. although he had a hard time in school, he's self-taught in firearms.
he's been a gunsmith, as his career choice, his entire life. highly respected for his expertise, i'm proud to boast. he neither hunts nor kills, though. he's an animal lover and a former animal cop. i'd call him a fetishist, in the best sense of the word.
hmmm, it doesn't appear to have any positive connotations. i'll put it this way -- i'm a passionate reader and knitter. i love my books and yarn and knitting needles as much as Eric loves his guns.
I can on some level respect a compassion for learning how to use, build and maintain guns. He actually sounds like a cousin of mine that is currently a park ranger. He knows a lot about, and loves guns and is a responsible gun owner, (although he only has 2 guns which he stores in gun safes when not in use.) He very strongly believes there should be much more gun control then what there is currently.
My cousin is also a gun smith. I only met him in college.
Growing up on a farm, we always had guns. They were just one of the tools necessary to have around to put an animal down if needed or for hunting in the fall. We never considered them as anything else. The kick back is too uncomfortable to be used just as toys for target practice.
I prefer our 130 pound Great Dane for protection. As long as we don't trip over each other.
@Tin-man Because unless the teachers who are armed are either prior military (specialized combat unit, preferably) or prior law enforcement, they will be more likely to get themselves or an innocent person injured/killed than taking out the bad guy.
And when the police show up to a school shooting scene and see a teacher standing there with a gun in his hand, what's likely to happen?
The police in America seem a bit trigger-happy even when people don't have guns. Remember that Australian woman who was shot in Minneapolis a few months back?
Heres a test Grizzly.
Using a Glock G21 Gen4 what is the most common direction a person missing a target of 75 feet or less?
okay, mykcob -- you're doing the opposite of what i just critiqued Tin-man for. you're talking "expert" talk, WAY over my head. i guess the test is meant to see if Grizzly can (1) answer your question, or if Grizzly can (2) even understand your question.
i'm a huge Tom Clancy fan (pbuh haha, but yeah). a lot of what i read is Greek to me, but i make an effort. that's how i learned about FLIR, for example, or the Red October's caterpillar drive, or nuclear sub protocols, or laser mirrors, or even how to say "fuck your mother" in Russian. Clancy never "wrote down" to his readers, but he did explain clearly and with the force of logic. i sure wish he was still around to write about Trump and Russiagate. he had no equal.
so, if you could share your Grizzly test with me, this time in plain English, i'd appreciate it.
@Hollis I give the answer in my next post, and like yours, it is a bit lengthy. The answer is at the bottom.
It should be noted that though as of right now, one has the right to own a weapon but what they don't have a right to do is have it with them or use it anywhere or anyway that they want, AND there is nothing in the Constitution that prevents regulation of said weapons nor does it stipulate the type of weapon that one has a right to have. It also does not stipulate how many weapons a person is legally entitled to.
The gun advocates keep brandishing the 2nd Amendment like it is the weapon that they want to have, but they don't know a damn thing about that Amendment.
"The Second Amendment of the United States Constitution reads: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
The key here is "A well regulated militia..." This is written this way specifically because of Article I Section 8 which includes this:
"To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;"
AND this:
"To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;"
The gun advocates have no clue that the bearing of arms is to stop insurrection and repel invading forces UNTIL an Army can be raised. It is a stop-gap provision and nothing more although it's meaning has been perverted for decades now.
Also if you actually talk to these gun nuts they think "the right to bear arms" is to protect them from the federal government. It is some perverted idea involving partial language of the Declaration of Independence and radical conservative propaganda.
Parsing this statement " That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it," as some sort of justification to take up arms against the federal government. However, they don't understand that the Declaration is a statement of intention it is not and never was intended to be in any way shape or form law. The Constitution is law. The supreme law of the land. It is a living document intended to be altered and changed according to the changes of the society.
So it is important that when debating, discussing, the issue of guns that one knows these things. Is there middle ground, maybe, but it is clear that the one thing that is dangerous to society is guns and how we deal with them currently AND there needs to be a drastic change.
Thoughts and prayers are not a solution. That is just patronizing bullshit.
Saying it's not the time is also just deflection hoping the issue will die down and eventually ignored.
Arming teachers is so wacko crazy it isn't even funny. No one with any experience will every think that such an idea is sane let alone a solution.
I have done my time in the trenches. I have killed people and have been wounded (shot) more than once. I know what it takes to actually take down an armed shooter. I know what it feels like when you have killed someone. I know what it feels like when a buddy is killed (shot, or blown up)
It ain't the movies or TV folks. Not even close.
Take a teacher. Let's say that this teacher is actually enthusiastic about being armed. Let's say the teacher takes all the classes necessary. Let's say a school shooter comes on campus and begins shooting. From experience, I would give the criminal a 90% chance over that teacher almost everytime. I don't care if that teacher is a hunter and an expert at the target range. Until you face the enemy who is dead set at shooting you, your chances are very low.
Oh, and BTW Grizzly, the answer to my Glock question is high and to the right as the shooter mentally anticipates recoil and also pulls the trigger instead of squeezing it.
mykcob4,
The SCOTUS has plainly stated that the right to bear arms is an individual right.
Every State that has the right to bear arms in its State Constitution plainly says that it's an individual right.
If you have the right to bear arms you have the right to carry them when you leave home. The State reserves the right to specify how you can carry your gun when you leave home.
Turning schools into prisons with gun carrying lunatic gun slingers is silly. A shooter can easily sit in the back of a school bus and kill everyone on it. Kids are safer over all in a school building when there's a shooter. If they are on a bus or out in the open they are in a very dangerous place.
But you absolutely do not have the right to carry your gun (or any weapon) where ever you want. Certainly do not have the right to carry a gun into scotus.
You also most certainly do not have the right to carry any type of weapon or gun.
Most states require special permitting and licensing to carry a gun into a public place, concealed or not.
Agree turning schools into prisons is silly.
A shooter can sit in the back of a school bus, you are right, but yet, it has not happened. Where as multiple school shootings has occurred in these "safer" school buildings? Care to ponder why that is?
Perhaps because weapons like the ar-15 are so effective at mass shooting, defenses in places like schools are mostly powerless to stop them? Someone with an ar-15 and lots of ammo can simply spray bullets through walls no matter how much they barricade a door to a classroom. In a lot of ways schools represent a tactical nightmare to defend against someone with a war weapon. With most all of the advantage going to the assault rifle wielding attacker.
In regards to gun safes in a school, I think Jim Jefferies made a funny point about this.... they'll be "no fucking good to you!!!"...
For example, people will likely know where that is, or who has it etc.. if your an armed kid, who's the first person you go for! The teacher who has a gun safe. Then you execute the kids.
What do you think a killer or psycho is going to do, stand around and wait whilst your trying remember your mother in laws birthdate in order to dial it in the safe... Then get it out, then load it...
Why not just have machine gun nests at the doors of all schools, snipers on the roofs, tanks in the car park... and Chuck Norris monitoring the hall...
Fucking hell....
And while it sounds like a joke, do we really expect all 5 million teachers and staff in this country to never snap at their students and not pull out the conveniently accessible loaded gun available in the desk the teacher sits at? All 5 million teachers and staff will never on their worse day make use of such a convenient killing tool in the heat of the moment? Death to students from school shootings is still exceedingly rare, we would only need 1 in a million teachers to have a bad day a year to wipe out any gain in possible lives saved in mass shooting shooters that are not teachers/staff.
Also there is an ever increasing teacher and school staff shortage, getting a job that gives you access to a weapon in the school, potentially dozens of loaded weapons may be easy. (Does anyone expect every school in the country to keep careful control of the master gun safe combo list they will have to keep on file in the office year after year?)
It is like tRump's wall idea, utterly ridiculously insanely stupid idea with so many incredibly obviously enormous flaws in the idea to anyone that has half a brain.
Samuel L. Jackson used blunt language to describe the problem with Trump's plan = Samuel L. Jackson mocks Trump’s proposal to arm teachers
By Luis Sanchez - 02/24/18 12:07 PM EST
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/375423-samuel-l-jackson...
Somewhere in America...
Attachments
Attach Image/Video?:
Update:
At a meeting with Governors, Trump actually said he would have run in the school even if he were unarmed. This from a man who faked a medical condition to keep from going to Nam! Un-FUCKING-BELIEVABLE!
Just to be clear and although Grizzly is gone, There is a difference between Trump/LaPierre and the Hippies that burned their draft cards. Trump and LaPierre were and are cowards. The people that burned their draft cards were not cowards, quite the opposite. It took courage to face criminal charges to protest against an unjust war.
Trump has no problem risking other peoples lives but he would NEVER put his OWN life on the line. He is a fucking coward and nothing more!
Another thing that bothers me and people ignored. Nikolas Cruz knew that there was an armed guard on campus and it didn't even slow him down.
Many mass shooters are suicidal seeking out death by cop. So "arming teachers" wouldn't slow them down a bit. It might even encourage them to go ahead. Recently Melissa Texas Have not only armed teachers but put up posters announcing it. I don't know what they hope to accomplish, they won't stop a well-armed determined shooter with mass murder and suicide on their mind.
Update.
Both Delta and Dick's take a positive stand for gun control. The more that corporations fight the NRA and support gun control it WILL happen!
Let us hope the momentum continues, and some real gun control legislation occurs nationwide.
Walmart has also adopted new policy similar to Dicks sporting goods. This is actually starting to have real impact. We may actually be starting to get somewhere, lets hope this momentum continues.
Even tRump is even suggesting major gun control now. Ofcourse he may change his mind on that and reverse course a few hours later.
The answer to U.S. gun problem is very simple. Quit arguing about what the Second Amendment means and amend it. We have amended the Constitution many times.
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