Why isn't the bible ultimate truth. I've been doing the best I can to research multiple topics.. failed miserably.. I cant wrap my head around it.
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Around what, Italianish?
The fact it’s a book?
Or the fact it doesn’t hold ultimate truth?
There is no “ultimate” truth. Quite frankly, the best humans can get is “as close to what is true”
(ie “real” for me) as possible.
So, I may witness an accident. I can give a “truthful” accounting of what happened. A video may show I got a detail wrong (say, color of vehicle or make/model). My “memory” wasn’t factual or objective. Did I lie? No. I recalled events truthfully. Was I accurate? No.
Did I once honestly believe in god. Yes. Can I recall via memory, experiences that I felt backed up my belief? Yes. Was it factual? No.
Our minds, eyes, ears (hearing pitch)...our senses/feelings...can in fact with-hold or add to our perceptions. This is why objective evidence is so important.
Did writers of the bible’s various books lie? I don’t know - but they weren’t factual or objective. There may have been memory issues, story telling (exaggeration), hearsay, political motivation, mental health issues or drugs involved with any/all/some of the writers.
A book written by ancient men that is interesting to historical minded or archeology. So is the Sumerian tablets. So is the Egyptian book of the dead ...
@Italianish
Better question:
What makes YOU think the buybull IS the ultimate truth?
(And, yes, I shamelessly plagiarized "buybull". Couldn't help it. Seemed so wonderfully fitting for this thread topic.)
@Italianish
The Bible is NOT a book in the sense you seem to be using the term. It's an anthology of many books, divided into two main books;The Old Testament and the New Testament.
I'm an atheist, also a skeptic. So far the only ultimate truth of which I'm aware is my own death, almost certainly at some time within the next 10-15 years.
The Bible is claimed to be the revealed word of god. Not believing in god, I can hardly then claim the bible [ or any other book ] is revealed truth . The moral teachings are mostly lifted from Judaism. Christianity contains no new ideas or teachings of which I am aware.
It is my opinion that the Old Testament is the mythology of Judaism, written down by flawed men around 700 bce, much of it pinched from other religious traditions, especially Babylonian and [possibly] the Egyptians
The New Testament is also myth. See " Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why" by Dr Bart Ehrman.
Dr Richard Carrier is a mythicist, he argues that Jesus did not exist. That Christianity is a synthesis Judaism and the Greek Mystery Religions. Perhaps watch a couple of his lectures on Youtube, beginning with "The Historicity Of Jesus"
There is no doubt in my mind that the bible is almost certainly myth. That very little if any of the New Testament is based on fact. The Old Testament is arguably slightly less fanciful.
@Italianish: Why isn't the bible ultimate truth.
Because it's a translation.
There's an Italian proverb "Traduttore, traditore", which roughly means "Translator, traitor". The Italian who wrote that was angered by poor translations of Italian poetry into French. French and Italian are both Romance languages that evolved in similar cultural environments. Yet even across that language pair it's difficult to translate complex ideas. Imagine how wide the gulf is between Middle Eastern cultures of the 1st millennium BCE and the Anglo cultures of the 3rd millennium CE.
We have trouble understanding the translated manuals for imported cars and electronic equipment. Why would we use a translated document written by primitives who lived long ago and far away as a blueprint for modern life?
@Ultimate Truth?
Bats really are birds? Rabbits really do chew their cud? There really was an exodus from Egypt? Moses actually existed? Jesus was real? Donkeys and snakes can talk? A man can live inside a fish? God wrestles with people? People can be raised from the dead? Virgins can be impregnated by spirit beings? The earth is round, flat, and held up by four pillars?
Ummmm..... What ultimate truth are you referring to?
The bible is just a book, written by flawed humans.
Italianish, the bible does have relevant and important guidance within it. But is that effective and moral guidance something we can find in secular areas? For example, killing other people is bad, we don't need some invisible dude in the sky telling us, we can figure that out easily.
My point is that all positive messages are secular, they do not need divine instructions, we can figure it out by ourselves. The bible has good parts and bad parts. The good parts did not need divine instructions.
Why does it seem like it has to be real?
I mean I dont see how it is love to create knowing exactly what would happen to most of creation after it had been created.. eternal suffering?
@ Italianish
First off, you need to educate yourself on the history of the bible. It is a compilation of many unknown authors over an unknown period of time. Even the Gospels Accounts, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, were not authored by those people.
Knowledge is power. Arm yourself.
@Italianish
One guess from me, (if you are talking about the bible.)
I do not know your full history, but my guess is you for a long time believed in the bible as the ultimate "truth." Your family also, your friends, and many of your most important peers. You spent a lot of time listening to, thinking about, discussing and generally putting effort into this idea. The more effort we put into something the more "committed" we are to the idea especially if it is reinforced.
This can lead to feelings like "it has to be real" a desire to validate all your effort into it in the past. We see this with people staying in relationships that are abusive, I am seeing this now in a family member that is in the midst of a "love" scam. No matter how much I point out the facts, the obviousness, the family member thinks I am just "jealous" and being crazy, and the person is "perfect." (We had a long conversation about that, where the family member full on stated: "this *person* can do no wrong."
The buybull is a book only in description...it is a disorganized supernatural based hunk of horseshit. It is both reason and false validation for stupid people to believe in unsubstantiated supernatural things, because they either didn't/don't have the intellectual tools or enough brain power to reason truth. I really don't see how anyone can even consider it as the antithesis of truth.
Is it just me or does God being Love look like he actually didn't love us when Adam and eve were created.? He knew what he was doing right?
I mean I don't believe I know the answer as to why he even created humans in the first place.
@ Italianish
She didn't.
@Old man
First man in space returns to the earth claiming he saw god.
Reporter Fred Lovejoy : (breathlessly) : Well Colonel Shagnasty,I understand you saw Godd?
Col Shagnasty :"Indeedly doodly yes! I certainly did!"
Reporter: (having just shit himself with excitement) '"What can you tell us?"
Col Shagnasty. " A lot of 'merkins are gonna be mighty upset"
Reporter(warily) "Oh?"
Col Shagnasty "Oh yeah. For a start, she's black-----"
OMFG! I had just typed out a huge response.
Jesus fuck - you should be asking yourself first why you believe in “god” without proof and then “creation” ... here read this story, it’s an old myth that was believed by the reigning empire at the time and many of its figures have “survived” thousands of years later - maybe it can answer your dumb-ass question.
https://www.cs.williams.edu/~lindsey/myths/myths_16.html
@ Italianish
This is a very good reason why you should question everything about the bible. Many theists claim their god is love, yet each year thousands of children die from cancer. Here is an obvious contradiction we can examine. The bible states quite clearly many acts of horrors inflicted by this god. Therefore this god is not love, thus the bible has falsehoods.
If the bible is true and there is a god, why inflate your ego by believing a superior bring wanted to create pets that fawn over it. Does that make any kind of sense?
Slavery, is the answer to that. As per " there was not a man to till the ground."Genesis 2:5
@ Italianish
I am not sure if there is such a thing as 'Ultimate Truth', especially when trying to interpret texts written nearly 2000 years ago. However the bible definitely isn't it! If you ask a muslim about ultimate truth, they will say it is found in the quran!
There is a very good series of lectures on YouTube, by Yale University, on New Testament History. I suggest you watch/listen to them. They are very informative, & quite easy to watch, listen to. I find the Lecturer very good. There is also another lecture series on the Old Testament, which I am currently watching.
Link is below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtQ2TS1CiDY&list=PL279CFA55C51E75E0
War Is Peace.
Freedom Is Slavery.
Ignorance Is Strength.
God is love.
@ Algebe
Brilliant.
The first three lines (obviously from Orwell's 1984) describe the reality of accepting two mutually opposing beliefs simultaneously as correct.
God is love.
@David Killens
I see many parallels between religion and the nightmare world of "1984". Everyone is under surveillance by an eye in the sky. The past is distorted as a way of controlling the present. Hatred of the Other is encouraged. And those who disobey face an eternity in Room 101.
And as you pointed out, both religion and Big Brotherism require individuals to to replace critical thinking with "doublethink".
@Algebe
1984
Edit to add: Well, crap. I posted this before I read David's response. He beat me to it... *frownie face*...
The Bible isn't about truth and love as much as it is about obedience and punishment.
@Grinseed
"The Bible isn't about truth and love as much as it is about obedience and punishment."
Indeed.
Have you been reading/listening to Bishop John Shelby Spong? If not , highly recommended. He's written several books and there are a lot of lectures by him on YouTube.
EG https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdtpn517RgA (2.32 minutes)
If you can find one thing wrong with it, it cannot be the ultimate truth, just one thing. A burning bush not only speaks, but in the same language as Moses. I prefer not to get caught up in the possibility that there is a one chance in an infinite number of odds that this could have happened, less I lose all contact with reality.
The bible was not written in modern English.
@David
"The bible was not written in modern English."
Nor in Aramaic ,which Jesus and his disciples disciples allegedly spoke. The epistles and the gospels were written in Greek. Nor is it likely any of the disciples were literate even in Aramaic,let alone Greek.
Much has always been made of Matthew being 'a tax collector'. A good example of the problems of translating one language into another . Some modern scholars now say that claim is a mistranslation . That Matthew was probably a toll taker***,as found on many roads,then as now..
**I'm afraid I can't track down that text. Consequently, my claim must be treated as anecdotal. Probably on safer ground looking at Bart Ehrman's " Misquoting Jesus"
@cranky47: A good example of the problems of translating one language into another
And then there's the little matter of Mary's virginity.
Well this will be my first comment. I recently signed up for Twitter & came to realize quickly that while Karen is on Facebook, her messed up children are all on Twitter. So I found this place.
I guess my first post here will be the same as my response to most Twitter users, but only because OP asked.
https://www.historyextra.com/period/stuart/king-james-vi-i-hunted-witche...
The same guy who commissioned, sponsored, and authorized the bible that most of today's Bible's are based on, blamed witches for a storm that he couldn't explain.
I'll cut the post short and say, just read the page that the provided link goes to.
Christianity and Roman Catholicism is simply propaganda designed to keep a population united for one person's best interests, and the guy has been dead for 4 centuries.
@Silly Bill E.:The same guy who commissioned, sponsored, and authorized the bible that most of today's Bible's are based on, blamed witches for a storm that he couldn't explain.
James I was also as gay as a rainbow, but that doesn't stop his spiritual descendants from waving his book while persecuting people for the way they were born.
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